Re: Python education survey

From	Lie Ryan <lie.1296@gmail.com>
Subject	Re: Python education survey
Date	2011-12-28 04:53 +1100
References	<06423dd7-4fbb-4e7a-b529-e697ea862b05@f11g2000yql.googlegroups.com> <mailman.3860.1324378694.27778.python-list@python.org> <36065956-359d-42cf-a5fc-75fdea830737@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com> <deee8a2f-114a-4313-86bd-59dc449dd8b9@n6g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Message-ID	<mailman.4143.1325008513.27778.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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On 12/27/2011 10:41 PM, Eelco wrote:
>
> *Your suggestion of VIM is especially objectionable. Though I am sure
> it is a great tool to you, the subject here is beginner education.
> Just because it is a good tool for you, does not make it a good tool
> for a beginner.

Before using VIM, I used to use gedit (and still do, though not as often 
now); I don't think I've ever had any problem with not using a full 
blown IDE with Python. I generally don't miss not using an IDE since 
Python doesn't have the tradition of using overly verbose names like in 
Java.

I'm personally of the opinion that beginners generally should start with 
a simple programmer text editors (gedit is a good example). Firstly, you 
don't want to confuse beginners with IDE vs language features; secondly, 
at the size of the problem beginners typically had, they don't **need** 
95% of those features; and if you teach beginners powerful IDE features 
too early, by the time their problem gets big enough that the IDE 
features would actually help, they'd already forgotten about them.

> IPython bundled with a lightweight but function-rich and non-hacker-
> but-WYSIWYG editor would be a great choice. But until that comes
> around, pycharm it is for me.

Thread

Python education survey Raymond Hettinger <raymond.hettinger@gmail.com> - 2011-12-19 19:51 -0800
  Re: Python education survey Alec Taylor <alec.taylor6@gmail.com> - 2011-12-20 17:27 +1100
  Re: Python education survey Luka Dornhecker <luka.dornhecker@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-19 23:20 -0800
  Re: Python education survey Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2011-12-20 02:32 -0500
  Re: Python education survey Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2011-12-20 09:14 +0100
    Re: Python education survey Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-20 03:02 -0800
    Re: Python education survey Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2011-12-20 06:45 -0800
      Re: Python education survey Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-21 02:51 +1100
  Re: Python education survey Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0@gmail.com> - 2011-12-20 10:58 +0000
    Re: Python education survey Carl Smith <carl.input@gmail.com> - 2011-12-26 21:59 -0800
      Re: Python education survey Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 03:41 -0800
        Re: Python education survey Lie Ryan <lie.1296@gmail.com> - 2011-12-28 04:53 +1100
          Re: Python education survey Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 11:45 -0800
            Re: Python education survey Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 12:04 -0800
              Re: Python education survey Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 13:44 -0800
                Re: Python education survey Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 17:56 -0800
                Re: Python education survey Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2011-12-27 20:21 -0600
                Re: Python education survey Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 18:42 -0800
                Re: Python education survey Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-28 14:54 +1100
                Re: Python education survey Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-28 06:59 +0000
                Re: Python education survey rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 23:49 -0800
                Re: Python education survey Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-12-31 16:27 +0000
                Re: Python education survey Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-12-31 13:23 -0500
                Re: Python education survey Alexander Kapps <alex.kapps@web.de> - 2011-12-31 20:06 +0100
                Re: Python education survey Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-01-01 02:36 +0000
                Re: Python education survey Alexander Kapps <alex.kapps@web.de> - 2012-01-01 05:53 +0100
                Re: Python education survey Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-01-02 17:02 +0000
                Re: Python education survey Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2011-12-31 23:44 -0600
                Re: Python education survey Dominic Binks <dbinks@codeaurora.org> - 2011-12-31 21:12 -0800
                Re: Python education survey Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-01-02 21:27 -0800
                Re: Python education survey Dominic Binks <dbinks@codeaurora.org> - 2012-01-02 22:03 -0800
                Re: Python education survey Evan Driscoll <edriscoll@wisc.edu> - 2012-01-03 01:31 -0500
                Re: Python education survey Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2012-01-03 04:33 -0800
                Re: Python education survey Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-01-04 01:30 +0000
                Re: Python education survey Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-01-01 16:50 +1100
                Re: Python education survey Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-28 04:25 -0800
  Re: Python education survey Miki Tebeka <miki.tebeka@gmail.com> - 2011-12-20 10:07 -0800
  Re: Python education survey Fernando Perez <fperez.net@gmail.com> - 2011-12-21 01:40 +0000
  Re: Python education survey Ashton Fagg <ashton@fagg.id.au> - 2011-12-21 12:06 +1000
    Re: Python education survey Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-12-20 21:34 -0500
      Re: Python education survey Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-21 13:44 +1100
      Re: Python education survey Nathan Rice <nathan.alexander.rice@gmail.com> - 2011-12-21 11:57 -0500
        Re: Python education survey Raymond Hettinger <raymond.hettinger@gmail.com> - 2011-12-22 12:01 -0800
        Re: Python education survey rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-12-22 19:05 -0800
  Re: Python education survey Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2011-12-25 09:44 -0800
    Re: Python education survey Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-26 14:27 +1100
      Re: Python education survey Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2011-12-26 06:52 -0800
        Re: Python education survey Nathan Rice <nathan.alexander.rice@gmail.com> - 2011-12-26 11:11 -0500
          Re: Python education survey Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2011-12-26 09:27 -0800
        Re: Python education survey Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-26 18:04 +0000
          Re: Python education survey Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2011-12-26 10:32 -0800
            Re: Python education survey Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 06:56 +1100
    Re: Python education survey Carl Smith <carl.input@gmail.com> - 2011-12-26 22:14 -0800
      Re: Python education survey Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 08:37 -0800
        Re: Python education survey Lie Ryan <lie.1296@gmail.com> - 2011-12-28 04:50 +1100
          Re: Python education survey Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 10:11 -0800
            Re: Python education survey Lie Ryan <lie.1296@gmail.com> - 2011-12-28 08:13 +1100
            Re: Python education survey Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 14:31 -0700
  Re: Python education survey Monte Milanuk <memilanuk@gmail.com> - 2011-12-25 22:02 -0800
  Re: Python education survey K Richard Pixley <rich@noir.com> - 2011-12-27 09:59 -0800
    Re: Python education survey Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 12:26 -0600
      Re: Python education survey K Richard Pixley <rich@noir.com> - 2011-12-27 14:04 -0800
        Re: Python education survey Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 16:57 -0600
          Re: Python education survey 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-27 17:21 -0800
            Re: Python education survey Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 18:01 -0800
          Re: Python education survey 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-27 17:21 -0800
      Re: Python education survey rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 21:50 -0800
    Re: Python education survey Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 10:21 -0800
      Re: Python education survey K Richard Pixley <rich@noir.com> - 2011-12-27 12:39 -0800

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