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Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)

References (2 earlier) <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org> <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4> <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org> <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
Date 2015-04-20 01:15 +1000
Subject Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
From Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Message-ID <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 9:38 PM, BartC <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
> Suppose there were just two syntaxes: C-like and Python-like (we'll put
> aside for a minute the question of what format is used to store Python
> source code).
>
> Why shouldn't A configure his editor to display a Python program in C-like
> syntax, and B configure their editor to use Python-like tabbed syntax?

You still haven't addressed the question of the extent of "C-like
syntax" for Python. It's not simply a matter of block delimiters. With
git (and I believe similarly with hg, but I'm not sure about smaller
and/or proprietary source control systems), you can define a pair of
filters which transform a file between the actual source control
system and your checked-out version, so (for instance) you could have
source control work with four-space indents where you work with tab
indents. That one's dead easy. With a little more work, you could
probably rig something up to use keywords or symbols to delimit blocks
of code; braces would be harder, because Python uses them for dicts
and sets, so you'd need some sort of context-aware parsing.

But the biggest problem is that you wouldn't actually be changing
anything else. You'd end up with a bizarre hybrid that uses a tiny bit
of C-like syntax, but entirely Python-like syntax everywhere else. For
example, Python doesn't allow this:

if condition: for i in range(3): do_stuff()

So you'd never truly be able to take advantage of the braces. In fact,
all you'd _really_ have would be a way to key in some braces, commit
to source control, check out again, and have your indentation
auto-fixed for you... and if that's all you want, I think there are
editors which make the reindenting of code a ton easier than that!

As Dave suggests, make yourself a parser which turns *any* legal[1]
Python code into your preferred "C-like" syntax, and another which
performs a perfect reverse transformation. I suspect you'll find the
task fundamentally hard.

ChrisA

[1] Coping with broken Python code is going to be important later on,
but ignore it for now. It's a ton harder to ensure that you can do a
reversible syntactic change on something with syntax errors!

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Thread

New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Blake McBride <blake1024@gmail.com> - 2015-04-15 21:07 -0700
  Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-15 21:48 -0700
  Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-04-16 14:51 +1000
  Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-04-16 15:49 +1000
    Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-15 23:11 -0700
      Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) William Ray Wing <wrw@mac.com> - 2015-04-16 09:00 -0400
    Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-16 11:51 +0100
      Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-04-17 03:10 +1000
        Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2015-04-16 12:49 -0500
        Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-16 22:04 +0100
        Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2015-04-17 11:37 +0200
    Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2015-04-16 22:14 +0300
  Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-04-16 07:46 +0000
    Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2015-04-16 10:47 +0200
    Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-04-16 19:34 +1000
    Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2015-04-16 12:09 +0200
      Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-04-16 20:43 +1000
        Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2015-04-16 13:07 +0200
          Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)yhoni alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-04-16 13:18 +0000
            Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)yhoni BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-16 14:44 +0100
              Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)yhoni Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-04-16 18:46 +0100
              Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)yhoni alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-04-16 18:03 +0000
            Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)yhoni Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-04-16 23:50 +1000
            Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)yhoni Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2015-04-16 16:09 +0200
              Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)yhoni alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-04-16 18:04 +0000
        Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-04-16 23:41 +1000
        Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2015-04-16 15:57 +0200
  Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-04-16 13:17 +0100
  Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2015-04-16 14:48 +0200
  Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Simmo <square.steve@gmail.com> - 2015-04-16 14:37 +0100
  Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Blake McBride <blake1024@gmail.com> - 2015-04-16 07:52 -0700
    Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Blake McBride <blake1024@gmail.com> - 2015-04-16 08:01 -0700
      Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-04-16 18:08 +0000
        Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) memilanuk <memilanuk@gmail.com> - 2015-04-16 11:28 -0700
    Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2015-04-16 15:05 +0000
      Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) edmondo.giovannozzi@gmail.com - 2015-04-20 03:00 -0700
    Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) memilanuk <memilanuk@gmail.com> - 2015-04-16 08:05 -0700
    Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-04-16 16:05 +0100
      Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) CHIN Dihedral <dihedral88888@gmail.com> - 2015-04-19 11:46 -0700
    Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-04-17 01:03 +1000
    Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2015-04-16 15:21 +0000
    Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-04-17 03:41 +1000
      Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Ron Adam <ron3200@gmail.com> - 2015-04-16 14:54 -0400
    EditorConfig for cross-editor consistent code style (was: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-04-17 06:10 +1000
    Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-04-17 09:44 -0600
      Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2015-04-17 16:28 +0000
        Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-17 18:05 +0100
          Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-17 10:13 -0700
          Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2015-04-17 11:13 -0700
            Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-04-17 23:28 +0300
          Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-04-18 07:10 +1000
          Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2015-04-18 01:18 +0000
            Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-17 19:22 -0700
              Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-19 12:44 +0100
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-04-19 23:23 +1000
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-04-19 07:22 -0700
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-19 07:01 -0700
          Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-04-17 20:14 -0600
            Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-04-18 09:53 +0300
          Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-04-18 12:22 +1000
            Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-17 22:28 -0700
            Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-04-18 10:00 +0300
              Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-18 00:13 -0700
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-04-18 10:42 +0300
              Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-04-19 11:15 -0600
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-04-19 23:41 +0300
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-19 19:00 -0700
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-04-20 12:54 +1000
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-04-20 13:05 +1000
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-04-20 08:09 +0300
            Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-19 12:38 +0100
              Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-04-19 22:59 +1000
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-19 22:42 +0100
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Ron Adam <ron3200@gmail.com> - 2015-04-19 19:28 -0400
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-04-20 09:59 +1000
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-20 01:30 +0100
              Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2015-04-19 09:18 -0400
              Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-04-19 23:22 +1000
              Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-04-19 14:30 +0100
              Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-04-20 01:15 +1000
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-19 09:03 -0700
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Mel Wilson <mwilson@the-wire.com> - 2015-04-19 17:38 +0000
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-04-20 03:53 +1000
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Mel Wilson <mwilson@the-wire.com> - 2015-04-19 18:25 +0000
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-19 19:08 -0700
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-04-20 12:24 +1000
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-19 19:43 -0700
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-04-20 13:03 +1000
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-19 20:28 -0700
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-04-20 13:44 +1000
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-20 19:18 -0700
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-04-20 20:30 +1000
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-20 04:51 -0700
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-25 17:42 +0000
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-20 13:05 +0100
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-04-24 01:50 -0700
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-04-20 03:38 +0100
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) llanitedave <llanitedave@birdandflower.com> - 2015-04-21 08:29 -0700
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-21 10:49 -0700
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) llanitedave <llanitedave@birdandflower.com> - 2015-04-21 14:35 -0700
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-21 20:11 -0700
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) llanitedave <llanitedave@birdandflower.com> - 2015-04-21 21:05 -0700
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-22 04:37 -0700
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-04-22 13:05 +0100
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-04-20 20:38 +1200
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-04-20 20:15 +1000
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2015-04-19 18:07 +0000
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-04-20 06:03 +1000
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-19 18:46 -0700
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-04-20 12:42 +1000
              Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-04-20 03:46 +1000
                Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-19 13:36 -0700
          Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-24 22:06 -0700
            Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-04-25 10:27 +0300
              Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-25 09:52 -0700
    Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-04-24 08:31 +0100
    Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-04-24 08:03 -0600
  Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-16 10:59 -0700
    Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rob Gaddi <rgaddi@technologyhighland.invalid> - 2015-04-16 18:45 +0000

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