Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?

From	Random832 <random832@fastmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Subject	Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
Date	2016-04-30 20:41 -0400
Message-ID	<mailman.276.1462063320.32212.python-list@python.org> (permalink)
References	<5724253e$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <20160430235132.GA83556@cskk.homeip.net> <1462063311.237252.594520729.52D9D362@webmail.messagingengine.com>

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On Sat, Apr 30, 2016, at 19:51, cs@zip.com.au wrote:
> _When_ they want a pager.

Why would they need an environment variable at all in that case, rather
than explicitly invoking the pager by name?

To me, *not* having PAGER=cat signifies that someone *does* want a
pager. That may be a crappy convention, but it's the one we're stuck
with.

> And setting PAGER=cat before invoking interactive python is no better,
> because 
> it will screw with $PAGER in any subprocess spawned from that
> environment.

But why would you not *also* want PAGER=cat in those subprocesses? You
don't want those things to spawn pagers that you haven't asked
explicitly for, either, right?

I don't get the "It's terrible if I run man or git it won't open a
pager, but I don't want pydoc to use a pager" viewpoint. It just doesn't
make any sense to me.

> Let me recite one of my favourite rules of thumb:
> 
>   If it can't be turned off, it's not a feature. - Karl Heuer

You turn it off by setting PAGER=cat. The fact that pydoc uses a pager
is the *same* feature as the fact that git and man do.

Thread

What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-29 02:33 +1000
  Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2016-04-28 16:45 +0000
    RE: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Dan Strohl <D.Strohl@F5.com> - 2016-04-28 17:02 +0000
    Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? John Wong <gokoproject@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 13:05 -0400
    RE: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Dan Strohl <D.Strohl@F5.com> - 2016-04-28 17:25 +0000
    Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2016-04-28 10:27 -0700
  Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2016-04-28 09:49 -0700
  Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-29 03:06 +1000
  Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Irmen de Jong <irmen.NOSPAM@xs4all.nl> - 2016-04-28 19:08 +0200
    Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-04-28 20:31 +0300
      Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-04-29 18:04 +1200
    RE: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Dan Strohl <D.Strohl@F5.com> - 2016-04-28 17:32 +0000
  Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Jussi Piitulainen <jussi.piitulainen@helsinki.fi> - 2016-04-28 20:30 +0300
  Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-28 13:30 -0400
  Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 17:33 +0000
  RE: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Dan Strohl <D.Strohl@F5.com> - 2016-04-28 17:39 +0000
  Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-28 13:40 -0400
  Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 18:14 +0000
    Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-04-28 21:31 +0300
      Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 19:39 +0000
      Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-28 15:51 -0400
      Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 21:08 +0000
        Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-29 11:40 +1000
          manpage writing [rst, asciidoc, pod] was [Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?] "Martin A. Brown" <martin@linux-ip.net> - 2016-04-29 06:32 -0700
          Re: manpage writing [rst, asciidoc, pod] was [Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?] Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2016-04-29 07:06 -0700
            Re: manpage writing [rst, asciidoc, pod] was [Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?] Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-29 08:17 -0700
          Re: manpage writing [rst, asciidoc, pod] was [Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?] Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-04-30 12:25 +1000
            Re: manpage writing [rst, asciidoc, pod] was [Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?] Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-29 20:20 -0700
              Re: manpage writing [rst, asciidoc, pod] was [Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?] Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-04-29 21:06 -0700
                Re: manpage writing [rst, asciidoc, pod] was [Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?] Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-29 23:37 -0700
                Re: manpage writing [rst, asciidoc, pod] was [Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?] Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-04-30 00:44 -0700
          Writing manual pages using Python code (was: manpage writing) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-04-30 12:25 +1000
          Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? cs@zip.com.au - 2016-05-01 10:06 +1000
  Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-04-28 19:15 -0700
    Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 22:00 -0700
      Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Jussi Piitulainen <jussi.piitulainen@helsinki.fi> - 2016-04-29 09:02 +0300
      Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-29 19:36 +1000
        Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-29 02:53 -0700
          Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-30 11:20 +1000
            Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2016-04-29 19:09 -0700
            Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-29 22:16 -0400
              Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-29 19:27 -0700
                Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-29 22:36 -0400
                Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-29 19:46 -0700
                Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-29 23:14 -0400
                Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-04-30 12:49 +1000
                Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-30 13:23 +1000
                Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-04-30 14:06 +1000
                Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-30 00:16 -0400
                Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-29 21:34 -0700
                Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-30 01:20 -0400
                Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? cs@zip.com.au - 2016-05-01 09:51 +1000
                Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-01 14:28 +1000
                Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-30 20:41 -0400
                Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> - 2016-05-01 02:30 +0000
                Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help? Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-30 23:46 -0400

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