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Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development?

From Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu>
Subject Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development?
Date 2011-05-23 13:08 -0400
References <80d59383-36a3-4744-85c4-1a0577f1d3a6@dr5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com><BANLkTinviKm4A232=niyBCsqpKeazyWm=g@mail.gmail.com><BANLkTik+iBBgGBfZruE4BLoq0pz01sj9BQ@mail.gmail.com><BANLkTi=dyW-ZW=bEfSZmsHDjzo34+3rHrA@mail.gmail.com><BANLkTim0JVK-4yMxbjV+MC6TSh3k8tYPhg@mail.gmail.com><9CDC4B2CD1F445E994119A50F65155DF@teddy><BANLkTi=5RytpHpP1ausX9n064vkhDHz+FA@mail.gmail.com><12225671E9654FECB49613D915FAEC19@teddy> <irbn0t$t8d$1@dough.gmane.org><21A740B7AC6644248476DFADDF726C73@octavian> <ircvbn$nlu$1@dough.gmane.org> <629DAC3611EA49B0A36BCF70151CDE2F@octavian>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Message-ID <mailman.1980.1306170550.9059.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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On 5/23/2011 4:49 AM, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

> But let's remember from what this discussion started. This is not a
> Python critique, because each language has its own ways.
> I just wanted to show that the fact that "there is more than one way to
> do it" in Perl and that "there is a single way" in Python are just
> buzzwords,

Agreed. The latter is simply incorrect for Python and I don't know why 
people say that. The statement from the Zen of Python is as follows:
"There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it."
where 'it' is some reasonable common operation. This is a statement of 
*intent* that is opposed to "All possible ways of doing things should be 
included". The key word that people too often omit is *obvious* (once 
one learns Python). There are usually, of necessity, multiple ways to do 
something, but for common operations, there should be one way that is 
obvious to the experienced Python programmer.

For instance, if you want to process the items of a collections, you can 
use normal recursion, tail recursion, while iteration, or for iteration. 
For the first three, you can use explicit or implicit conditions for 
flow control. (Implicit conditions are by try-except.) One can use 
various access methods to get the items. However, the one obvious, 
compact, and efficient way is 'for item in collection:'. This works with 
*any* collection with a proper __iter__ method.\

People accustomed to using tail recursion for this in other languages 
sometimes request that tail-call space optimization be added to make 
tail recursion a second 'obvious' way. Guido has refused because 1) 
there are real problems with the idea and 2) one obvious way is enough.

Similarly, the obvious way to define a function is a def statement. One 
alternative, which Guido allowed to be added for the specific purpose of 
passing simple functions as arguments in function calls, is a lambda 
expression. Guido has rejected requests to expand lambda expressions to 
general function definitions. Again, there are real problems and one 
obvious way is enough.

 > because this was an example where in Python there are many
> ways to do it while in Perl there is a single way used usually, which is
> also more simple.

Here I disagree. As I replied before, you are either ignoring the 
obvious Python way or talking about a rare need.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy

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Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Beliavsky <beliavsky@aol.com> - 2011-05-20 09:39 -0700
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Dotan Cohen <dotancohen@gmail.com> - 2011-05-20 23:47 +0300
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-22 15:01 +1000
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@gmail.com> - 2011-05-22 10:44 +0300
    Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Ulrich Eckhardt <ulrich.eckhardt@dominolaser.com> - 2011-05-23 12:56 +0200
      Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2011-05-23 11:28 +0000
      Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 08:25 +0300
    Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2011-05-24 10:09 -0400
      Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-25 00:43 +1000
      Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 19:11 +0300
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Daniel Kluev <dan.kluev@gmail.com> - 2011-05-22 19:20 +1100
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@gmail.com> - 2011-05-22 15:47 +0300
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2011-05-22 12:09 -0700
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-05-22 18:01 -0400
    Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> - 2011-05-22 18:55 -0500
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Daniel Kluev <dan.kluev@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 10:42 +1100
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 08:31 +0300
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 09:06 +0300
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 16:37 +1000
    Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> - 2011-05-23 10:26 -0500
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-05-23 02:37 -0400
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Daniel Kluev <dan.kluev@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 19:05 +1100
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Aleksandar Radulovic <alex@a13x.net> - 2011-05-23 08:52 +0000
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 11:49 +0300
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 12:01 +0300
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 12:41 +0300
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Daniel Kluev <dan.kluev@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 20:58 +1100
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Daniel Kluev <dan.kluev@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 21:16 +1100
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 14:17 +0300
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Daniel Kluev <dan.kluev@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 22:32 +1100
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-05-23 13:08 -0400
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 22:05 +0300
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 14:10 +0300
    Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> - 2011-05-24 00:17 -0500
      Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2011-05-24 06:09 -0400
        Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> - 2011-05-24 11:52 -0500
          Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2011-05-24 13:39 -0400
            Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> - 2011-05-24 13:17 -0500
              Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-05-27 15:48 +1200
                Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2011-05-26 23:53 -0700
                Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-05-27 09:47 -0400
                Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Karim <karim.liateni@free.fr> - 2011-05-27 22:10 +0200
            Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? "thegist@nospam.net" <thegist@nospam.net> - 2011-05-25 17:30 -0400
              Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-25 23:52 +0000
                Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? "thegist@nospam.net" <thegist@nospam.net> - 2011-05-26 11:05 -0400
          Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-25 08:01 +1000
            Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> - 2011-05-24 18:16 -0500
              Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-25 09:38 +1000
                Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> - 2011-05-24 20:48 -0500
            Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Thorsten Kampe <thorsten@thorstenkampe.de> - 2011-05-25 09:31 +0200
              Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> - 2011-05-25 07:01 -0500
                Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-05-25 12:54 -0400
                Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2011-05-25 10:17 -0700
                Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> - 2011-05-25 14:14 -0500
                Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Matty Sarro <msarro@gmail.com> - 2011-05-25 17:19 -0400
                Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2011-05-26 12:44 +0000
                Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-05-26 08:51 -0400
                Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-05-26 23:11 +1000
                Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-26 13:35 +0000
                Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? RainyDay <andrei.avk@gmail.com> - 2011-05-25 17:15 -0700
                Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-25 23:01 +0000
                Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> - 2011-05-25 22:00 -0500
                Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-05-26 14:25 +1000
                Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> - 2011-05-26 10:36 -0500
                Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-05-26 16:03 -0400
                Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-27 03:07 +0000
                Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Thorsten Kampe <thorsten@thorstenkampe.de> - 2011-05-27 10:10 +0200
                Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-27 09:31 +0000
                Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2011-05-27 10:12 -0700
                Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Karim <karim.liateni@free.fr> - 2011-05-26 22:27 +0200
                Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2011-05-26 09:18 -0700
                Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Thorsten Kampe <thorsten@thorstenkampe.de> - 2011-05-26 10:24 +0200
            Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-25 23:25 +0000
          Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2011-05-24 23:00 -0700
            Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-05-25 07:36 -0400
              Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-25 21:55 +1000
                Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-05-25 08:25 -0400
              Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2011-05-25 10:23 -0400
                Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-25 14:56 +0000
                Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Matty Sarro <msarro@gmail.com> - 2011-05-25 11:43 -0400
              Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-26 00:26 +1000
      Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 19:10 +0300
      Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2011-05-24 13:22 -0400
      Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 11:08 +0300
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Daniel Kluev <dan.kluev@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 14:34 +1100
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 08:39 +0300
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 09:00 +0300
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2011-05-24 08:23 +0200
    Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2011-05-24 10:50 -0400
      Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 19:18 +0300
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 11:10 +0300
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 18:20 +1000
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Daniel Kluev <dan.kluev@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 19:55 +1100
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2011-05-24 06:05 -0400
    Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> - 2011-05-24 16:18 +0300
      Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> - 2011-05-24 11:50 -0500
        Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-25 03:30 +1000
          Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> - 2011-05-24 12:56 -0500
            Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-25 07:53 +1000
              Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> - 2011-05-24 17:00 -0500
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 19:10 +0300
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 19:10 +0300
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? "thegist@nospam.net" <thegist@nospam.net> - 2011-05-26 11:52 -0400
  Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? Daniel Kluev <dan.kluev@gmail.com> - 2011-05-27 08:33 +1100
    Re: Why did Quora choose Python for its development? RainyDay <andrei.avk@gmail.com> - 2011-05-26 16:41 -0700

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