Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements

Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Date	2013-02-11 05:13 -0800
References	(15 earlier) <mailman.1533.1360386069.2939.python-list@python.org> <13e5e306-d253-418e-a1b2-ac5bde03f07d@googlegroups.com> <5117868b$0$29998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <375e9978-54a2-421a-a1fa-7f39cafc4f31@googlegroups.com> <mailman.1641.1360586431.2939.python-list@python.org>
Subject	Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements
From	Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com>
Message-ID	<mailman.1646.1360588449.2939.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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On Monday, February 11, 2013 6:40:23 AM UTC-6, Chris Angelico wrote:
> [...]
> Or doing what you were pointing and laughing at Pike for, and using
> two-symbol delimiters. You could even make it majorly logical:
> 
> list_ = [[ 1, 2, 3 ]]
> tuple_ = ([ 1, 2, 3 ])
> dict_ = [{ 1, 2, 3 }]
> frozendict_ = ({ 1, 2, 3 })
> set_ = [< 1, 2, 3 >]
> frozenset_ = (< 1, 2, 3 >)

I am vehemently against using more than one "opening seq char" and one "closing seq char". It works fine for single depth sequences, however, once you start nesting the mental focus required to parse the doubled openers/closers is headache inducing. I would accept wrapping the literal in some sort of declaration though, something like i proposed earlier in the thread. The easiest is to use:

  set({1,2,3})

but that looks like a function call! So we'd need a unique syntax. Either a single tag like:

  set{1,2,3}

Or we could use start and end tags like:

  set{1,2,3}set

where "set{" and "}set" are delimiters. For lists, tuples, and dict we would use the short form because these literals are far too ubiquitous:

  [1,2,3] # list
  {k:v} # dict
  (1,2,3) # tuple

However, the grouping chars for tuples has always been confusing because they can clash with grouping of expressions. What is this?

  (1)

It's NOT a tuple! But it looks like a tuple! What is this:

  1,2

it IS a tuple, but it does not look like a tuple! 

That's an unfortunate side effect of a poorly thought-out tuple syntax.

Thread

Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-07 22:16 -0800
  Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-02-07 23:27 -0700
    Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-07 22:32 -0800
    Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-07 22:32 -0800
  Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-09 02:16 +1100
    Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-08 09:48 -0800
      Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-02-08 12:58 -0500
      Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-08 11:58 -0800
        Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-09 11:05 +1100
          Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-08 16:49 -0800
            Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-09 12:17 +1100
              Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-09 20:54 -0800
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 16:04 +1100
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-11 04:28 -0800
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-11 23:50 +1100
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-11 05:28 -0800
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-12 00:52 +1100
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-11 20:24 -0800
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-11 20:24 -0800
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-11 05:28 -0800
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-11 04:28 -0800
              Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-09 20:54 -0800
            Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-02-08 18:29 -0700
            Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-09 16:01 +1100
              Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-09 20:26 -0800
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 15:50 +1100
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 18:09 -0800
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 18:09 -0800
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-10 22:37 +1100
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-02-10 09:45 -0500
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Thomas Rachel <nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915@spamschutz.glglgl.de> - 2013-02-10 18:06 +0100
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-11 04:18 -0800
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-11 23:40 +1100
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-11 05:13 -0800
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-12 00:35 +1100
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-11 20:00 -0800
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-11 20:00 -0800
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2013-02-11 17:06 -0800
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-12 16:55 +1100
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-12 09:48 -0800
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-13 08:24 +1100
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2013-02-12 18:43 -0800
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2013-02-12 18:43 -0800
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-02-15 13:12 -0700
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-16 11:12 +1100
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-12 09:48 -0800
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2013-02-11 17:06 -0800
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-11 05:13 -0800
                Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2013-02-15 21:09 +0200
              Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-09 20:26 -0800
          Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-08 16:49 -0800
        Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-02-08 18:06 -0700
          Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-09 22:25 -0800
          Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-09 22:25 -0800
      Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-09 14:16 +1100
        Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-02-09 15:36 -0500
      Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-02-11 21:12 -0800

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