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Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty

References (2 earlier) <d405822d-2252-4a85-8ab2-38ca88963d91@googlegroups.com> <CAPTjJmrCK+LGo5ijg6S0p2q1jHKt-bFfuOZqFm3ZtuACOPaSdw@mail.gmail.com> <mailman.1571.1360472029.2939.python-list@python.org> <5117aeca$0$29982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <CAMjeLr-WY3-47+R0P7nJV3DRbV21r8xRwwFbJJKk9sNH9pUA+w@mail.gmail.com>
Date 2013-02-11 08:51 +1100
Subject Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty
From Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Message-ID <mailman.1603.1360533094.2939.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, I was aware of his sarcasm.  But I was actually wanting to agree
> with the fundamental idea:  that one could reduce all data types to 1
> atomic unit and 1 grouping construct, and like set theory in
> mathematics, derive everything else.

There are many things that work fine in theory, but aren't practical.
You could theoretically rewrite any Python program in Ook (or its
non-G-rated cousin), but that doesn't mean that Ook's data model is
worth working with. You could write a Python-to-Ook compiler, perhaps,
for what that's worth. Proving these things possible may be of
curiosity value, but I wouldn't want to actually _work with_ such a
system.

A while ago I put together a language concep[1]t that, similarly,
started with nothing and let the programmer build from there. It
quickly proved to have one massive fundamental flaw: that two
programs, ostensibly written in the same language, could be utterly
and completely different. It'd be like treating Python and bash
scripts as the same language, given that the shebang at the top makes
them both execute just fine. If you reduce everything to nothing, you
(1) force the programmer to do a lot of unnecessary work, and (2)
allow two different programmers to do that work subtly differently and
thus create incompatible programs. (Python already has a little of
this, in that Py2 and Py3 files aren't guaranteed compatible; but
imagine if every source file were different.)

[1] Posted here if you care. http://rosuav.com/1/?id=683

ChrisA

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LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-08 17:50 -0800
  Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-09 14:36 +1100
    Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-09 19:54 -0800
      Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 15:20 +1100
      Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-02-09 20:53 -0800
        Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-11 01:29 +1100
          Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-02-10 14:03 -0500
            Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-11 11:11 +1100
          Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 13:28 -0800
            Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-11 11:10 +1100
              Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 17:14 -0800
          Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-11 08:51 +1100
          Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 14:01 -0800
      Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-02-10 03:39 -0500
        Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 10:45 -0800
          Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-02-10 16:44 -0500
          Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-11 11:11 +1100
        Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 10:45 -0800
      Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-10 22:29 +1100
        Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-11 00:24 +1100
          Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-11 01:00 +1100
        Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-02-10 07:52 -0600
        Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 15:59 -0800
          Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-02-10 18:12 -0600
            Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 17:24 -0800
            Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 17:24 -0800
          Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-11 11:36 +1100
            Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-02-11 02:03 +0000
            Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-11 04:53 -0800
              Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-12 00:27 +1100
                Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-11 20:55 -0800
                Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-02-11 21:28 -0800
                Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-12 12:46 -0800
                Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-12 12:46 -0800
                Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-11 20:55 -0800
          Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 18:05 -0800
            Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-02-11 07:19 +0000
            Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-11 18:24 +1100
            Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-02-11 07:35 +0000
            Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Tim Chase <tim@thechases.com> - 2013-02-11 06:04 -0600
            Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2013-02-11 19:07 +0200
      Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 13:30 +0000
        Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 16:25 -0800
          Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-11 11:42 +1100
        Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 16:25 -0800
      Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 10:45 -0800
    Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2013-02-10 06:33 -0800
  Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-09 15:51 +1100
    Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 17:56 -0800
      Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-12 19:06 +1100
  Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Neil Hodgson <nhodgson@iinet.net.au> - 2013-02-10 20:53 +1100
    Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-10 22:30 +1100
    Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 10:55 -0800
      Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Neil Hodgson <nhodgson@iinet.net.au> - 2013-02-11 08:57 +1100

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