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Re: Debugging (was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?)

From Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Subject Re: Debugging (was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?)
Date 2016-08-02 17:27 -0400
Message-ID <mailman.129.1470173244.6033.python-list@python.org> (permalink)
References (18 earlier) <nnkj9f$pj6$1@dont-email.me> <nnlho1$ogp$1@blaine.gmane.org> <mailman.81.1469991502.6033.python-list@python.org> <nnpuqh$mug$1@dont-email.me> <nnr37j$k5i$1@blaine.gmane.org>

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On 8/2/2016 7:05 AM, BartC wrote:
> On 31/07/2016 19:58, Terry Reedy wrote:
>> On 7/31/2016 6:18 AM, BartC wrote:
>
>>>  repeat N:
>
>>> The benefit is not so much performance, but being able to express
>>> something very easily and quickly.
>>
>> The cost of the 'repeat' contraction is that one cannot use the loop
>> variable, either as part of a modified computation or for monitoring or
>> debugging purposes.
>>        print(i, for_body_result)
>> Beginners are often atrocious at debugging, and it seems not to be
>> taught hardly at all.  'repeat n' erects a barrier to debugging.
>
>> Debugging: probing a computation to see what actually happens, as
>> opposed to what one wanted and expected to happen.  (Me, just now ;-)
>>
>> One major way of debugging is printing values as they are computed.
>> Naming values (objects) allows them to be printed without recomputing
>> the value.  In the 'repeat n' context, recomputing would mean adding 3
>> lines of debugging code instead of 1.
>>
>> i = 0
>> repeat n:
>>    a = f(a)
>>    print(i, a)
>>    n += 1
>
> Your objection to a feature such as 'repeat N' doesn't really stack up.

My objection is that there is a real cost that MUST be stacked up 
against the benefit.

...
> Anyway, if that was a valid objection, it would apply throughout the
> language. In list-comps for example (there is an index, but where do you
> stick the print?).

In the expression.  Given 'f(i) for i in range(n)', a careful debug 
version might be '(f(i), print(i))[0] for i in range(n)'.  If the loop 
does not finish, the extra None component does not matter.  and the 
subscripting could be omitted.

> Or in a for-loop iterating over values:
>
>  a=[10,20,30,40,50]
>  for x in a:
>     print (x)
>
> This will print the element, but what's the index?

Irrelevant.  The end of the sequence of prints says where the loop stopped.

 > According to you,
> every such for-loop needs to be written in a form that provides the
> index of a loop

Don't pretend that I said that.  It is not nice.

> I get that people here don't want such a feature, but I don't think this
> is the reason.
>
> I think the real reason is not willing to admit that the language lacks
> something that could actually be useful,

I think it is you who is unwilling to admit that nearly everything that 
would be useful also has a cost, and that the ultimate cost of adding 
every useful feature, especially syntax features, would be to make 
python less unusable.

Some time around last August to October, I think, someone posted to 
python-ideas that he had produced a children's Python environment that 
accepted 'repeat n' statements and translated them to equivalent for 
loops before running.  His idea was that 'repeat n' should be added to 
python itself so translation would not be needed.  The main use of the 
statement in this context is for logo/turtle code with many 
side-effect-only calls.

I though the idea plausible, at first, and noted that one could add an 
extension to IDLE to experiment further with the idea.  An extension 
could add a menu ited such as 'de-repeat'.  One could also, with about 
the same effort, *patch* IDLE to do the translation just before it calls 
compile(code, ...).

Leaving IDLE aside, one could write a pyre.whatever script to translate 
a .pyre file to a .py file and run the latter.  Any of these methods 
could be applied to experimenting with other 'improvement' ideas.

Anyway, *after thinking about the idea for at least a week*, I became 
less enthusiastic about hiding the loop counter.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy

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Thread

Why not allow empty code blocks? Kent Tong <kent.tong.mo@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 08:33 -0700
  Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Rob Gaddi <rgaddi@highlandtechnology.invalid> - 2016-07-22 16:44 +0000
  Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-23 11:49 +1000
    Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Kent Tong <kent.tong.mo@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 19:06 -0700
    Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-07-23 14:13 +0300
      Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-23 21:34 +1000
        Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-07-23 14:49 +0300
        Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-23 15:00 +0100
          Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 00:19 +1000
          Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-07-29 10:58 +0200
          Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@Vex.Net> - 2016-07-29 07:14 -0400
            Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-29 14:15 +0100
              Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2016-07-29 07:41 -0600
              Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-29 23:43 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-07-29 15:55 +0200
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-30 00:38 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-07-29 20:32 +0200
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-30 13:49 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-08-02 09:31 +0200
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@Vex.Net> - 2016-07-29 12:28 -0400
              Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@Vex.Net> - 2016-07-29 12:20 -0400
          Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-07-29 15:46 +0200
          Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2016-07-29 15:43 -0400
            Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-29 21:19 +0100
              Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-07-30 01:01 +0300
              Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-30 13:35 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-30 11:15 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-30 21:25 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-30 04:39 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-30 21:49 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-30 05:11 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-30 22:22 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-30 05:31 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-30 22:44 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-31 01:07 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-30 13:39 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-30 22:47 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-30 22:47 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-30 13:27 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-30 22:34 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-31 00:58 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-31 00:47 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-30 09:15 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-30 09:29 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-31 03:53 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2016-07-30 12:16 -0600
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-07-31 13:37 +1200
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-30 19:34 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-31 13:14 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-30 20:34 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 14:12 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-30 23:42 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-30 22:10 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-07-31 19:39 +1200
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-07-31 10:51 +0300
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-31 01:18 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 06:51 -0600
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-31 09:23 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-31 01:14 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-08-01 03:06 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-31 10:32 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 02:37 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-30 09:58 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 03:15 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-30 10:48 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-07-31 13:45 +1200
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 12:17 +1000
                Procedures and functions [was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?] Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-31 13:32 +1000
                Re: Procedures and functions [was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?] "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@Vex.Net> - 2016-07-31 00:01 -0400
                Re: Procedures and functions [was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?] Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-31 16:40 +1000
                Re: Procedures and functions [was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?] Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-30 23:47 -0700
                Re: Procedures and functions [was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 16:55 +1000
                Re: Procedures and functions [was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 14:05 +1000
                Re: Procedures and functions [was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?] Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-07-31 00:26 -0400
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-07-30 23:51 -0400
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 14:21 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-30 21:22 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-08-02 12:30 +0200
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-08-02 05:29 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-08-03 10:26 +0200
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 04:48 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-08-03 15:09 +0300
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 05:23 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 05:27 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-08-03 15:37 +0300
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 05:43 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-08-03 15:34 +0300
                {non sequitur/bad humor} was: Why not allow empty code blocks? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-08-03 18:01 -0400
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-31 02:43 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-30 23:06 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-30 23:36 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-30 14:58 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-31 01:48 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 02:34 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-30 19:46 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-31 12:10 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-07-30 23:41 -0400
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-31 11:18 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-08-01 01:31 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-07-31 12:39 -0400
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? bart4858@gmail.com - 2016-07-31 17:11 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-08-01 10:21 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-31 17:55 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-08-01 11:10 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-31 19:09 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-08-01 12:14 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? bart4858@gmail.com - 2016-08-01 00:55 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-07-31 22:08 -0400
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-07-31 21:29 -0400
                Debugging (was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?) Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2016-07-31 14:58 -0400
                Re: Debugging (was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?) BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-08-02 12:05 +0100
                Re: Debugging (was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 00:58 +1000
                Re: Debugging (was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?) BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-08-02 18:12 +0100
                Re: Debugging (was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?) Steven D'Aprano <steve+python@pearwood.info> - 2016-08-03 03:57 +1000
                Re: Debugging (was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?) BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-08-02 20:14 +0100
                Re: Debugging (was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-08-03 15:43 +1000
                Re: Debugging (was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?) BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-08-03 11:16 +0100
                Re: Debugging (was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 23:18 +1000
                Re: Debugging (was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?) Steven D'Aprano <steve+python@pearwood.info> - 2016-08-04 13:23 +1000
                Re: Debugging (was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?) BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-08-04 10:13 +0100
                Re: Debugging (was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 19:39 +1000
                Re: Debugging (was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-08-04 19:38 +1000
                Re: Debugging (was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?) Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2016-08-04 14:37 -0400
                Re: Debugging (was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 04:54 +1000
                Re: Debugging (was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 05:18 +1000
                Re: Debugging (was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?) Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2016-08-02 21:55 +0200
                Re: Debugging (was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 06:50 +1000
                Re: Debugging (was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?) Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2016-08-02 17:27 -0400
                Re: Debugging (was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-02 14:54 -0700
                Re: Debugging (was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?) BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-08-02 23:38 +0100
                Re: Debugging (was Re: Why not allow empty code blocks?) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-08-01 05:03 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-07-31 15:12 +1200
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 14:07 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-30 15:16 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-31 02:08 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-31 02:10 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-07-31 15:10 +1200
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@Vex.Net> - 2016-07-30 10:39 -0400
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-30 16:14 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@Vex.Net> - 2016-07-30 13:11 -0400
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-30 19:15 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2016-08-01 00:25 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@Vex.Net> - 2016-07-31 11:53 -0400
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2016-08-03 23:38 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@Vex.Net> - 2016-07-31 12:04 -0400
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-31 09:27 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2016-08-02 01:30 +1000
                Using valid emails "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@Vex.Net> - 2016-08-01 12:05 -0400
                Re: Using valid emails Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-08-02 02:22 +1000
                Re: Using valid emails Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-08-01 22:16 +0300
                Re: Using valid emails "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@Vex.Net> - 2016-08-01 12:40 -0400
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-08-01 22:14 +0300
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-07-31 19:41 +0300
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-08-01 03:22 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? "Jan Erik Moström" <lists@mostrom.pp.se> - 2016-07-31 20:58 +0200
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 14:01 -0600
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? bart4858@gmail.com - 2016-07-31 16:43 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-08-01 09:49 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? bart4858@gmail.com - 2016-07-31 17:21 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-08-01 10:33 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? bart4858@gmail.com - 2016-08-01 01:05 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2016-08-01 09:50 +0000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? bart4858@gmail.com - 2016-08-01 06:26 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-08-01 20:12 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? bart4858@gmail.com - 2016-08-01 06:19 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? bartc <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2016-08-01 13:22 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-08-02 06:28 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-08-02 17:56 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Steven D'Aprano <steve+python@pearwood.info> - 2016-08-03 03:54 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 05:10 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-08-02 20:19 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> - 2016-08-02 19:38 +0000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? lists@juliensalort.org (Julien Salort) - 2016-08-02 21:45 +0200
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Steven D'Aprano <steve+python@pearwood.info> - 2016-08-03 03:50 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-02 12:22 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 03:02 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-08-03 18:58 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 05:16 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 22:36 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-08-03 14:04 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 23:25 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 14:06 +0000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2016-08-03 20:40 +0000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-08-03 14:23 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 23:31 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-08-03 19:52 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 06:12 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-08-03 21:53 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 07:39 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-08-03 23:21 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 08:31 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-08-04 00:51 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-03 16:25 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-08-04 00:48 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2016-08-01 09:40 +0000
                Using valid emails "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@Vex.Net> - 2016-08-01 12:32 -0400
                Re: Using valid emails Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2016-08-01 12:38 -0600
                Re: Using valid emails "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@Vex.Net> - 2016-08-01 15:27 -0400
        Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Rob Gaddi <rgaddi@highlandtechnology.invalid> - 2016-07-28 20:01 +0000
          Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-29 06:11 +1000
      Detecting the trivial can be non-trivial (was Why not allow empty code blocks?) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-23 05:28 -0700
        Re: Detecting the trivial can be non-trivial (was Why not allow empty code blocks?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-24 11:15 +0100
          Re: Detecting the trivial can be non-trivial (was Why not allow empty code blocks?) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 07:49 -0700
      Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@Vex.Net> - 2016-07-23 08:29 -0400
        Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-07-23 16:13 +0300
          Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@Vex.Net> - 2016-07-23 09:54 -0400
            Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-23 15:06 +0100
              Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-24 01:55 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-24 11:35 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-24 11:45 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 21:27 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-24 14:09 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 23:24 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-24 15:05 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-25 00:32 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-07-25 12:40 +1200
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-25 02:14 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-07-25 11:45 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 09:54 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-26 03:02 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 10:11 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-26 03:26 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 19:43 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 20:48 -0600
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 13:12 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 20:20 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 13:28 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 20:46 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-25 17:20 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-25 14:27 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? neceros@gmail.com - 2016-07-24 11:27 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-24 22:17 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 08:28 -0400
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 22:48 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 23:38 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Marco Sulla <mail.python.org@marco.sulla.e4ward.com> - 2016-07-24 15:11 +0200
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-24 15:44 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 00:51 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-24 19:14 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Jonathan Hayward <jonathan.hayward@pobox.com> - 2016-07-24 13:34 -0500
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2016-07-24 18:52 +0000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 05:00 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-24 21:03 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 07:08 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-24 23:13 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-07-25 13:04 +1200
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-25 10:44 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-07-26 19:21 +1200
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-07-26 10:56 +0300
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-07-26 20:35 +1200
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-26 11:11 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-25 12:37 +1000
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-25 11:39 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-07-26 19:23 +1200
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-07-25 10:36 -0400
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-25 18:33 +0100
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 17:56 -0700
                Re: Why not allow empty code blocks? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-07-26 16:31 +0200

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