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Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper()

Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Date 2012-12-19 13:18 -0800
References <2adb4a25-8ea3-441f-b8c0-ee6c87e4b19f@googlegroups.com> <kaslsb$iue$1@news.albasani.net> <CAPTjJmrLAe0i9rW6sCYkYBvpiPk2O=FHB0PgSq1dqNqh9Y7Zqg@mail.gmail.com> <mailman.1068.1355941696.29569.python-list@python.org>
Subject Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper()
From wxjmfauth@gmail.com
Message-ID <mailman.1073.1355951888.29569.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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Le mercredi 19 décembre 2012 19:27:38 UTC+1, Ian a écrit :
> On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 8:40 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > You may not be familiar with jmf. He's one of our resident trolls, and
> 
> > he has a bee in his bonnet about PEP 393 strings, on the basis that
> 
> > they take up more space in memory than a narrow build of Python 3.2
> 
> > would, for a string with lots of BMP characters and one non-BMP. In
> 
> > 3.2 narrow builds, strings were stored in UTF-16, with *surrogate
> 
> > pairs* for non-BMP characters. This means that len() counts them
> 
> > twice, as does string indexing/slicing. That's a major bug, especially
> 
> > as your Python code will do different things on different platforms -
> 
> > most Linux builds of 3.2 are "wide" builds, storing characters in four
> 
> > bytes each.
> 
> 
> 
> >From what I've been able to discern, his actual complaint about PEP
> 
> 393 stems from misguided moral concerns.  With PEP-393, strings that
> 
> can be fully represented in Latin-1 can be stored in half the space
> 
> (ignoring fixed overhead) compared to strings containing at least one
> 
> non-Latin-1 character.  jmf thinks this optimization is unfair to
> 
> non-English users and immoral; he wants Latin-1 strings to be treated
> 
> exactly like non-Latin-1 strings (I don't think he actually cares
> 
> about non-BMP strings at all; if narrow-build Unicode is good enough
> 
> for him, then it must be good enough for everybody).  Unfortunately
> 
> for him, the Latin-1 optimization is rather trivial in the wider
> 
> context of PEP-393, and simply removing that part alone clearly
> 
> wouldn't be doing anybody any favors.  So for him to get what he
> 
> wants, the entire PEP has to go.
> 
> 
> 
> It's rather like trying to solve the problem of wealth disparity by
> 
> forcing everyone to dump their excess wealth into the ocean.

----

latin-1 (iso-8859-1) ? are you sure ?

>>> sys.getsizeof('a')
26
>>> sys.getsizeof('ab')
27
>>> sys.getsizeof('aé')
39

Time to go to bed. More complete answer tomorrow.

jmf

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Thread

Py 3.3, unicode / upper() wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-12-19 06:23 -0800
  Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() Thomas Bach <thbach@students.uni-mainz.de> - 2012-12-19 15:43 +0100
  Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() Christian Heimes <christian@python.org> - 2012-12-19 15:52 +0100
    Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-12-19 12:55 -0800
      Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 14:23 -0700
        Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-12-20 11:42 -0800
        Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-12-20 11:42 -0800
      Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-12-20 13:01 +1100
      Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() Westley Martínez <anikom15@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 18:53 -0800
    Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-12-19 12:55 -0800
  Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() Stefan Krah <stefan-usenet@bytereef.org> - 2012-12-19 16:01 +0100
  Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-12-20 02:17 +1100
  Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2012-12-19 16:18 +0100
    Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2012-12-19 16:22 +0100
    Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-12-20 02:40 +1100
      Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2012-12-20 15:57 +0100
    Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 11:27 -0700
      Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-12-19 13:18 -0800
        Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 14:31 -0700
          Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-12-20 11:40 -0800
            Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-12-20 17:48 -0500
            Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-12-20 22:51 +0000
          Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-12-20 11:40 -0800
      Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-12-19 13:18 -0800
    Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-12-19 19:39 -0500
    Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-12-20 13:03 +1100
    Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-12-19 21:54 -0500
    Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() Westley Martínez <anikom15@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 19:12 -0800
    Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-12-20 14:22 +1100
    Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-12-20 00:32 -0500
      Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-12-20 05:51 +0000
      Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-12-20 11:57 -0800
        Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-12-20 17:30 -0500
      Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-12-20 11:57 -0800
    Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2012-12-27 21:00 +0200
      Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-12-27 11:36 -0800
      Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-12-27 11:36 -0800
  Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() Christian Heimes <christian@python.org> - 2012-12-19 16:33 +0100
    Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-12-29 11:16 -0800
    Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-12-29 11:16 -0800
  Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() Benjamin Peterson <benjamin@python.org> - 2012-12-19 20:25 +0000
  Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-12-20 11:19 -0800
    Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2012-12-20 20:20 +0000
    Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-12-21 08:19 +1100
    Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-12-20 17:12 -0500
    Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-12-20 17:59 -0500
    Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper() Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-12-20 17:34 -0700

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