Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3

From	Robin Becker <robin@reportlab.com>
Subject	Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3
Date	2014-05-14 16:30 +0100
References	<mailman.9915.1399907977.18130.python-list@python.org> <8P7cv.78617$Sp6.8377@fx15.am4> <537172eb$0$29980$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <Kcncv.34412$GL7.204@fx10.am4> <CALwzidkxRSios8_Z=DvWPOKA1pf3bS0ZtWbCX+wfnDGu3pqN3A@mail.gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Message-ID	<mailman.10010.1400081443.18130.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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On 13/05/2014 17:08, Ian Kelly wrote:
.........
>
> And since it's so simple, it shouldn't be hard to see that the use of
> the shutil module has nothing to do with the Unicode woes here.  The
> crux of the issue is that a general-purpose command like cat typically
> can't know the encoding of its input and can't assume anything about
> it. In fact, there may not even be an encoding; cat can be used with
> binary data.  The only non-destructive approach then is to copy the
> binary data straight from the source to the destination with no
> decoding steps at all, and trust the user to ensure that the
> destination will be able to accommodate the source encoding.  Because
> Python 3 presents stdin and stdout as text streams however, it makes
> them more difficult to use with binary data, which is why Armin sets
> up all that extra code to make sure his file objects are binary.
>
Doesn't this issue also come up wherever bytes are being read ie in sockets, 
pipe file handles etc? Some sources may have well defined encodings and so allow 
use of unicode strings but surely not all. I imagine all of the problems 
associated with a broken encoding promise for stdin can also occur with sockets 
& other sources ie error messages failing to be printable etc etc. Since bytes 
in Python 3 are not equivalent to the old str (Python 3 bytes != Python 2 str) 
using bytes everywhere has its own problems.
-- 
Robin Becker

Thread

Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-12 16:19 +0100
  Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-05-12 17:47 +0000
    Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-05-12 12:31 -0600
    Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-05-12 20:42 +0100
    Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-05-12 16:16 -0600
    Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 09:42 +1000
    Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-13 01:18 +0000
      Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 11:39 +1000
        Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 16:25 +1000
          Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 16:32 +1000
      Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-12 20:58 -0500
      Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-13 03:33 +0100
      Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-12 22:10 -0700
        Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 00:39 -0500
          Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2014-05-13 01:45 -0400
          Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-13 16:03 +1000
          Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-12 23:09 -0700
          Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 16:18 +1000
            Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 01:32 -0500
            Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 01:32 -0500
            Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-05-13 07:20 -0400
              Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-13 13:39 +0000
                Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 23:43 +1000
                Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 07:30 -0700
                Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-14 00:36 +1000
                Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-05-13 13:51 +0000
                Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-05-13 14:42 +0000
                Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-05-13 15:21 +0000
                Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-13 23:53 +0000
                Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-14 10:08 +1000
                Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-05-14 12:42 +0000
                Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-14 22:52 +1000
                Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-05-16 14:46 +0000
                Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-17 01:07 +0000
                Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-17 07:19 +0300
                Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-17 09:35 +0100
                Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2014-05-17 10:29 +0100
                Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-17 14:15 +0000
                Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2014-05-17 22:01 +0100
                Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2014-05-17 09:57 +0100
                Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-17 12:07 +0000
                Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2014-05-17 22:07 +0100
                Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-17 19:18 +1000
                Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-17 21:05 +1000
                [OT] Copyright statements and why they can be useful (was: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3) Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-14 11:01 +1000
                Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-05-14 09:07 -0600
                Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2014-05-13 21:56 -0400
            Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-05-13 13:49 +0000
      Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 gregor <gregor@ediwo.com> - 2014-05-13 09:27 +0200
      Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2014-05-13 10:08 +0200
        Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-13 11:25 +0300
          Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 18:38 +1000
            Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-13 12:06 +0300
              Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 19:29 +1000
              Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-13 09:44 +0000
            Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2014-05-13 11:38 +0200
          Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2014-05-13 11:46 +0200
            Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-13 12:59 +0300
          Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-13 14:30 +0100
          Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 23:37 +1000
          Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Skip Montanaro <skip@pobox.com> - 2014-05-13 09:02 -0500
        Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-05-14 00:00 -0700
      Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-05-13 11:19 +0000
        Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 10:08 -0600
          Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-14 00:10 +0000
            Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-13 17:53 -0700
            Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-05-14 17:47 -0400
            Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Antoine Pitrou <antoine@python.org> - 2014-05-16 11:50 +0000
              Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-05-16 06:20 -0700
          Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-05-14 12:38 +0000
        Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Robin Becker <robin@reportlab.com> - 2014-05-14 16:30 +0100
        Re: Everything you did not want to know about Unicode in Python 3 Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-05-14 09:56 -0600

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