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Groups > comp.lang.c > #120411
| From | Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: Set the result of void function |
| Date | 2017-09-27 15:07 -0700 |
| Organization | None to speak of |
| Message-ID | <lntvznyewl.fsf@kst-u.example.com> (permalink) |
| References | (16 earlier) <QzSyB.796199$uh.155860@fx28.am4> <ln1smsymbr.fsf@kst-u.example.com> <C6TyB.1386148$py6.1076342@fx22.am4> <6308c8a5-6a1e-4667-bac4-1cdaf18e7e55@googlegroups.com> <ueUyB.1549783$WI6.1384739@fx30.am4> |
bartc <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
> On 27/09/2017 21:00, jameskuyper@verizon.net wrote:
>> On Wednesday, September 27, 2017 at 3:38:18 PM UTC-4, Bart wrote:
>> ...
>>> I thought I'd made my position clear: C's subroutines are only
>>> lookalikes ...
>>
>> No, it's very unclear how they fail (in your mind, if nowhere else) to qualify
>> as subroutines. You had to invoke the non-existent concept of a void value to
>> explain your objection. That concept is so central to your objection that it's
>> not at all clear what it would look like if you re-wrote it to correct that
>> error.
>>
>>> ... and only mildly enforced by the language.
>>
>> They're as strongly enforced as any other feature of the language: a diagnostic
>> is mandatory, successful translation of the code is not, and if the
>> implementation chooses to translate the code and the user chooses to ignore the
>> diagnostic and execute the resulting program anyway, the behavior is undefined.
>> C doesn't enforce any requirement more strongly than that.
>
> This is very difficult for me to argue.
As it should be, since James is absolutely correct.
> If I say a compiler says nothing
> about something that it should, you will say it's non-conforming.
Of course.
> If I it only warns, then you will say it's conforming, and it's the
> user's fault if they ignore it, or if they can't figure how to tell the
> compiler to do its job.
I would say the compiler is non-conforming. I might or might not say
anything beyond that.
> Anything except admit that the language should been far more explicit!
And there's the problem.
James and I are both telling you what the C language standard actually
says, and what it implies about how a conforming implementation must
behave. We do not always express a personal opinion about what the C
standard *should* say. Explaining what the standard says does not imply
that anyone thinks it's perfect, or even necessarily that it's good.
Do you understand the distinction?
You want to discuss personal opinion? Fine, here's mine. I would
prefer it if the C standard stated that diagnostics for violations of
constraints and syntax rules must be fatal errors. More precisely,
where it now says (N1570 5.1.1.3 Diagnostics):
A conforming implementation shall produce at least one diagnostic
message (identified in an implementation-defined manner) if a
preprocessing translation unit or translation unit contains a
violation of any syntax rule or constraint, [...]
I'd like to see added wording something like:
... and shall not successfully translate such a preprocessing
translation unit or translation unit.
(some wording borrowed from 4p4 which discusses #error).
From what you've said, I suspect you and I are largely in agreement on
that point.
I do not particularly expect any such change to happen in a future
standard, and I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it.
As it happens, at least some compilers have options (like "gcc
-pedantic-errors") that cause them to behave that way already.
"gcc -pedantic" issues warnings for some constraint violations, which
is still conforming but IMHO less than ideal. "gcc -pedantic-errors"
treats constraint violations as fatal errors, which is also
conforming. (Syntax errors are usually fatal in any case.)
[...]
--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
-- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
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Set the result of void function Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-09-19 14:23 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-09-19 14:38 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function gordonb.tfand@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2017-09-19 17:16 -0500
Re: Set the result of void function "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-09-20 00:39 +0200
Re: Set the result of void function James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-09-19 22:06 -0400
Re: Set the result of void function "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-09-20 06:51 +0200
Re: Set the result of void function bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-09-20 10:55 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-09-20 12:11 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2017-09-20 07:17 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-09-20 11:28 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2017-09-20 03:30 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2017-09-20 06:53 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-09-21 03:50 -0500
Re: Set the result of void function Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-09-21 11:00 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-09-21 12:39 +0000
Re: Set the result of void function bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-09-21 14:12 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-09-21 13:51 +0000
Re: Set the result of void function Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-09-21 08:36 -0600
Re: Set the result of void function bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-09-21 17:51 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-09-21 10:06 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-22 08:51 +0200
Plunging innocent people into poverty (Was: Set the result of void function) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2017-09-23 09:31 +0000
Re: Plunging innocent people into poverty (Was: Set the result of void function) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-23 12:09 +0200
Re: Plunging innocent people into poverty (Was: Set the result of void function) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2017-09-23 10:25 +0000
Re: Plunging innocent people into poverty Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-09-23 10:43 -0600
Re: Plunging innocent people into poverty supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-09-23 10:41 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-22 09:37 +0200
Re: Set the result of void function bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-09-22 11:27 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-22 14:42 +0200
Re: Set the result of void function Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2017-09-24 12:09 +0000
Re: Set the result of void function David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-25 08:31 +0200
Re: Set the result of void function Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-09-25 03:52 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-25 13:25 +0200
Re: Set the result of void function Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-09-25 04:58 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-25 14:20 +0200
Re: Set the result of void function Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-09-25 13:44 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-25 15:09 +0200
Re: Set the result of void function Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-09-25 05:44 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-09-25 05:58 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-25 15:15 +0200
Re: Set the result of void function Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-09-25 06:46 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-25 16:01 +0200
Re: Set the result of void function Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-09-25 07:18 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-09-25 07:55 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-09-25 08:49 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-09-25 09:21 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-09-25 09:51 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-09-25 21:57 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-09-25 15:03 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-09-25 21:34 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-09-26 04:28 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-27 08:26 +0200
Re: Set the result of void function "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-09-27 11:48 -0400
Re: Set the result of void function David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-28 08:54 +0200
Re: Set the result of void function gordonb.iddsu@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2017-09-28 23:33 -0500
Re: Set the result of void function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-09-27 09:15 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-09-27 17:50 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-09-27 10:35 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-09-27 18:47 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-09-27 10:52 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-09-27 11:10 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-28 09:10 +0200
Re: Set the result of void function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-09-27 11:06 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-09-27 20:01 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-09-27 12:26 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-09-27 20:38 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-09-27 13:00 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-09-27 21:54 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-09-27 14:12 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-09-27 14:34 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-09-27 23:16 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-09-27 16:09 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-09-28 01:12 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-09-28 02:03 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-28 17:31 +1300
Re: Set the result of void function David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-28 09:55 +0200
Re: Set the result of void function Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-28 21:00 +1300
Re: Set the result of void function bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-09-28 10:48 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-28 13:20 +0200
Re: Set the result of void function Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-09-28 11:29 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-09-27 20:27 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-09-29 19:30 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-09-29 19:45 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-09-29 14:49 -0400
Re: Set the result of void function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-09-27 15:07 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-28 09:42 +0200
Re: Set the result of void function bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-09-28 13:55 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-28 17:22 +0200
Re: Set the result of void function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-09-28 09:14 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-28 20:13 +0200
Re: Set the result of void function Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-09-29 19:42 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-09-28 09:14 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-09-28 09:25 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-28 20:17 +0200
Re: Set the result of void function bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-09-28 17:39 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-09-28 10:10 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-09-28 19:05 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-09-28 14:20 -0400
Re: Set the result of void function Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-29 07:52 +1300
Re: Set the result of void function jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-09-28 11:59 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-09-28 18:50 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-09-28 19:47 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-28 21:57 +0200
Re: Set the result of void function "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-09-28 16:14 -0400
Re: Set the result of void function supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-09-28 13:17 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-09-28 21:23 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-09-28 13:55 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-09-29 19:50 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-09-28 13:57 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-28 23:18 +0200
Re: Set the result of void function "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-09-28 17:38 -0400
Re: Set the result of void function supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-09-28 15:54 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-29 08:59 +0200
Re: Set the result of void function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-09-28 14:43 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-29 10:43 +0200
Re: Set the result of void function supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-09-29 07:43 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-09-30 19:21 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-09-30 19:45 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-09-28 13:31 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-09-28 13:41 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-09-28 14:07 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-09-28 16:25 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-09-28 18:45 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-09-28 19:54 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-09-28 20:51 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-09-28 22:39 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-09-29 09:16 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2017-09-29 16:17 +0000
Re: Set the result of void function David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-09-29 11:05 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-09-29 11:23 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-09-29 12:15 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-09-29 16:04 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-09-29 16:44 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-09-30 10:04 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-09-30 10:33 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-09-29 11:26 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-09-29 16:03 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-09-29 09:44 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-09-29 11:15 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-09-29 11:35 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-09-29 16:11 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-09-29 16:14 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-09-30 08:55 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-09-29 11:36 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-09-29 12:05 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-09-29 12:17 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-09-29 09:15 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-29 09:42 +1300
Re: Set the result of void function bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-09-28 21:55 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-09-28 14:12 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-09-28 17:22 -0400
Re: Set the result of void function Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-09-29 19:50 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-09-28 09:00 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-09-28 09:35 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-09-28 10:57 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-09-25 10:35 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-09-25 06:57 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-09-25 16:32 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-09-25 08:43 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-09-25 22:12 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-09-25 09:03 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2017-09-25 14:17 +0000
Re: Set the result of void function "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-09-20 11:32 -0400
Re: Set the result of void function fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2017-09-20 01:50 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-09-20 15:56 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-09-19 23:01 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-20 15:40 +0200
Re: Set the result of void function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-09-20 08:50 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-20 22:52 +0200
Re: Set the result of void function supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-09-20 15:04 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-09-20 07:39 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-09-19 15:18 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-09-20 01:21 +0100
Re: Set the result of void function jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-09-19 19:40 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function rockbrentwood@gmail.com - 2017-09-19 16:36 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-09-19 22:13 -0400
Re: Set the result of void function gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2017-09-22 01:48 +0000
Re: Set the result of void function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-09-19 19:36 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2017-09-20 01:00 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2017-09-20 02:01 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-09-20 08:36 -0700
Re: Set the result of void function "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-09-20 11:36 -0400
Re: Set the result of void function John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2017-09-20 15:30 -0700
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