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Groups > alt.comp.os.windows-10 > #99519
| From | Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | alt.comp.os.windows-10 |
| Subject | Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years |
| Date | 2019-09-27 20:51 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <gv7slcFdf3U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink) |
| References | (15 earlier) <qmj0j5$vkm$1@dont-email.me> <gv4vjhFc6k2U1@mid.individual.net> <qmlg4t$3c6$1@dont-email.me> <gv6vp0Fp2g7U1@mid.individual.net> <qmm8no$bqt$1@dont-email.me> |
On 2019-09-27 7:15 p.m., Paul wrote: > Rene Lamontagne wrote: >> On 2019-09-27 12:16 p.m., Chris wrote: >>> Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> wrote: >>>> On 2019-09-26 1:38 p.m., Chris wrote: >>>>> Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> wrote: >>>>>> On 2019-09-26 9:57 a.m., Chris wrote: >>>>>>> Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 17:13:33 -0000 (UTC), Chris >>>>>>>> <ithinkiam@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 07:22:42 -0000 (UTC), Chris >>>>>>>>>> <ithinkiam@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Sep 2019 12:14:39 +0200, "Carlos E.R." >>>>>>>>>>>> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 21/09/2019 04.26, Eric Stevens wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 22:34:04 +0200, "Carlos E.R." >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20/09/2019 02.33, Eric Stevens wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 12:30:32 -0400, Paul >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nospam@needed.invalid> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eric Stevens wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I asked you a general question and you answer with a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific example. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-( >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because all the problems, all the industry, can not be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tackled all at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once. Start somewhere with something, and continue. A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> step at a time. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, you have no general answer to the problems. You can >>>>>>>>>>>>>> only pick off >>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasional examples. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And you refuse to solve a part of the problem just because >>>>>>>>>>>>> it does not >>>>>>>>>>>>> solve it all. Instead of doing what we can NOW. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> No. Like you I want to solve the problem but like you I >>>>>>>>>>>> recognise that >>>>>>>>>>>> what is needed is a solution of broad aplicability which >>>>>>>>>>>> wind and >>>>>>>>>>>> solar are not. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> And what is your broadly applicable solution, then? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Right now I think its pebble bed reactors with thorium >>>>>>>>>> reactors not >>>>>>>>>> too far away. That's if only we could start working on them >>>>>>>>>> again. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Untested, theoretical technology which is at best 20 years >>>>>>>>> away. That's not >>>>>>>>> withstanding the public (and therefore government) unease with >>>>>>>>> nuclear >>>>>>>>> power. Not really a solution; more of a hope. What do we do in the >>>>>>>>> meantime? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Neither are untested. The USA was working on the thorium reactor in >>>>>>>> the early 70s but gave it up because it would not produce weapons >>>>>>>> grade materials. The chinese are now well ahead with both pebble >>>>>>>> bed >>>>>>>> and thorium reactors. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Evidence? From what i can see there's only one working pebble >>>>>>> reactor and >>>>>>> no thorium reactors anywhere. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The Chinese pebble reactor is not without controversy >>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/08/180823113558.htm >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And an African project never got off the ground >>>>>>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pebble_bed_modular_reactor >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'd say fusion is better long-term hope. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If it ever works sustainedly. Even then I think it will be further >>>>>>>> away than the fission alternatives. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> True, since fission has been around since the 50s. However, the >>>>>>> appetite >>>>>>> for fission is low. Particularly in the west. The downsides are >>>>>>> sufficient >>>>>>> to warrant investing in alternative technologies. Fusion can >>>>>>> generate more >>>>>>> energy, produces much less dangerous waste and is inherently fail >>>>>>> safe. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For me it's the long term solution when solar and wind capacity >>>>>>> has peaked. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Kinda Fail safe, One bad weld between the Superconducting magnets and >>>>>> you would probably vaporize the machine, >>>>> >>>>> Significantly damage? probably. Vaporise? nope. >>>>> >>>>>> Remember the LHC incident? >>>>> >>>>> Nope >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Some info on it 2008. >>>> >>>> https://home.cern/news/press-release/cern/cern-releases-analysis-lhc-incident >>>> >>> >>> Hmm. A helium leak and a superconducting magnet quench. Hardly a >>> "vaporise >>> " incident, is it? >>> >> >> Hardly the same type of machine! Hardly the same expected results. >> A tokomak is not a cyclotron is it? >> One is running a gas at -473 Deg the other a plasma at a few million Deg. >> >> Rene > > OK, I found an article for the carbon beam dump at the LHC. > > https://www.symmetrymagazine.org/article/december-2007/protecting-the-lhc-from-itself > > > If the beam were to go off-track, it would drill a hole in any material > in its path. The beam is collimated, hair thin, and very energetic. > And unlike some industrial lasers that can thump their way through > a number of inches of material, the collimated beam could drill > through many many feet of material. > > To "dump" it, they de-focus the beam and diffuse it, then > point it at a 24 foot long 3 foot diameter chunk of graphite. Which > heats up instantly. > > "Together the LHC’s magnets store even more energy than the proton beams > do - a whopping 10,000 megajoules, compared to 362 megajoules for the > beams." > > And the staff aren't allowed to stand in the tunnel while it's running. > Parts of the tunnel are radioactive, and when you see a picture like this, > at a guess the area around this is probably (coincidentally) radioactive > from shit hitting the fan. > > https://www.symmetrymagazine.org/sites/default/files/styles/2015_hero/public/images/standard/090324_ALICE-hirez-s.jpg?itok=hKKksrAJ > > > ******* > > http://energyskeptic.com/2015/why-tokamak-fusion-not-likely-to-work-out/ > > "As this phenomenon builds, it is essential to discharge the huge > energy > accumulated in the magnet to the exterior of the Tokamak > Building." [Clever] > > "If a quench in ITER were to cause all of its magnets to go normal, > the magnetic energy released would be over 40 gigajoules, > the equivalent of roughly ten tons of TNT. How fast that > energy is released depends on a number of factors, and > regulators will require design features to minimize external damage." > > So that's 4x the LHC magnet energy content. > > Paul Thanks Paul for digging up those great articles, made seriously good reading and bears out my thoughts on the subject, the cost also would be totally prohibitive for units which could supply the amounts of megawatts we require. Rene
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Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-09-21 12:14 +0200
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2019-09-21 08:48 -0400
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2019-09-22 15:06 +1200
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2019-09-22 01:38 -0400
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-09-22 14:16 +0200
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2019-09-23 12:32 +1200
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-09-23 14:34 +0200
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2019-09-24 22:35 +1200
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2019-09-24 09:37 -0400
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2019-09-22 09:44 -0500
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2019-09-22 08:59 -0400
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2019-09-23 07:22 +0000
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2019-09-24 22:37 +1200
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2019-09-24 17:13 +0000
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2019-09-24 15:48 -0400
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2019-09-24 22:19 +0000
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2019-09-24 20:51 -0400
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2019-09-25 17:02 +0000
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2019-09-26 12:07 +1200
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> - 2019-09-25 19:56 -0500
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2019-09-25 21:50 -0400
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2019-09-25 22:57 -0400
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2019-09-26 01:48 -0400
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2019-09-26 21:49 +1200
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2019-09-26 18:50 +0000
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2019-09-27 16:45 +1200
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2019-09-27 02:08 -0400
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2019-09-26 08:30 -0400
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2019-09-26 09:30 -0400
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2019-09-26 21:40 +1200
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2019-09-26 10:07 -0400
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2019-09-26 21:38 +1200
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2019-09-26 16:10 +0100
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2019-09-26 14:57 +0000
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> - 2019-09-26 10:42 -0500
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2019-09-26 18:38 +0000
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> - 2019-09-26 18:23 -0500
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2019-09-27 17:16 +0000
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> - 2019-09-27 12:38 -0500
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2019-09-27 20:15 -0400
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> - 2019-09-27 20:51 -0500
Re: Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2019-09-26 16:00 -0400
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