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Groups > comp.lang.c > #123458
| From | Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond |
| Date | 2017-11-25 12:03 +1300 |
| Message-ID | <f7rmquF1omrU12@mid.individual.net> (permalink) |
| References | (19 earlier) <fnFRB.60641$W61.14006@fx08.am4> <f7om67F1omrU10@mid.individual.net> <87zi7cjib7.fsf@gmail.com> <f7pulbF1omrU11@mid.individual.net> <2OTRB.38544$UP1.27354@fx31.am4> |
On 11/25/2017 12:57 AM, bartc wrote:
> On 24/11/2017 07:05, Ian Collins wrote:
>> On 11/24/2017 07:34 PM, Gareth Owen wrote:
>>> Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 11/24/2017 08:32 AM, bartc wrote:
>>>>> BTW does C++ have arrays or vectors with lower bounds other than
>>>>> zero yet?
>>>>
>>>> Why would it?
>>>
>>> Or rather, why would you add them to the standard library when one can
>>> write a wrapper round std::array or std::vector in about five minutes?
>>
>> Quite!
>
> So the answer is No? And you need a DIY solution (like many of the
> things that are 'solved' by macros in C) if you want them.
Your point being? No programming language has every feature every
programmer wants! What differentiates C++ from other popular languages
is the built in mechanisms to add features through libraries without
having to build them in to the core language.
I for one have never needed other than zero indexed arrays, so I haven't
missed them.
> However, how /do/ you add such things in five minutes (you can move this
> to C++ to appease Keith if you like)?
It could be as trivial (which did take 5 minutes) as:
template <typename T, unsigned N, unsigned Start>
class OneIndexedArray : std::array<T,N>
{
using Array = std::array<T,N>;
public:
T& operator[](size_t n )
{ return Array::operator[](n-Start); }
const T& operator[](size_t n ) const
{ return Array::operator[](n-Start); }
size_t lower_bound() const { return Start;}
size_t upper_bound() const { return N+Start-1;}
};
int main()
{
OneIndexedArray<int,2,1> array;
array[1] = 21;
array[2] = 22;
std::cout << array[1] << ',' << array[2] << ','
<< array.lower_bound() << ',' << array.upper_bound() << '\n';
}
> And what would the use of such arrays look like? How do you get the
> bounds? Is it available for lightweight fixed length arrays or only for
> modified array and vector types? If the former, how does it interact
> with the array<->pointer model inherited from C?
Most of us in C++ land avoid naked arrays and pointers, the array and
vector classes have zero overhead and avoid issues with pointer decay.
> The point of having this stuff built-in is to make it completely effortless.
You can't build everything in! You whinge about a language being too
big, then you want more stuff built in. You can't have both!
> Otherwise all you are doing, when asked if language L has feature F, is
> saying, Yes it does have it - you only have to implement it!
You have to implement it and the support id there (I go back to the
classic example of complex numbers).
--
Ian.
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Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 21:23 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 20:41 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 23:12 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 22:37 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 23:52 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-20 11:18 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 12:34 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-20 03:56 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 13:36 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-20 05:19 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 16:37 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-20 14:31 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-20 07:14 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 16:54 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2017-11-20 08:05 -0800
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Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-20 14:27 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-20 11:40 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 22:17 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-21 09:01 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 22:21 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-21 10:37 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-20 09:36 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 20:14 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-11-20 12:18 -0700
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-20 11:33 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-20 11:48 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-20 16:26 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-20 19:10 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-21 09:53 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-21 03:42 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-21 13:18 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-21 04:49 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-21 15:49 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-21 07:41 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-21 12:39 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-22 08:20 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-21 12:33 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-21 15:58 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-21 16:41 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 01:01 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-22 14:21 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 01:50 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-22 14:57 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 18:31 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-22 10:58 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 20:50 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-22 13:04 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-11-22 13:09 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-24 06:24 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-11-21 20:01 -0600
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 10:00 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 11:03 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 12:38 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 11:50 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 15:18 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 13:19 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 15:47 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 16:04 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-22 16:45 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-22 12:08 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-22 10:02 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 21:56 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 20:22 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 21:59 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 21:15 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-22 13:37 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 22:04 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-23 18:25 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 18:16 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 10:27 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-23 12:50 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-23 09:18 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-23 09:15 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-23 12:48 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 22:18 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-24 09:38 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 21:00 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-22 13:40 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 22:24 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-22 15:18 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 02:34 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 13:45 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 14:34 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-23 18:16 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 10:23 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-23 12:13 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-23 09:30 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 02:21 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 13:49 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-23 16:07 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 16:03 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-24 09:09 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-24 08:02 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 11:26 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 11:37 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 19:56 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 12:07 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 20:31 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 12:38 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 19:32 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-24 08:34 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 20:24 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-24 06:34 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-24 20:05 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-24 11:57 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-24 04:25 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-24 13:02 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-24 07:31 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2017-11-24 13:32 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-24 14:05 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-25 12:03 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2017-11-25 00:23 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-25 00:41 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-25 00:58 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2017-11-24 20:28 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-25 02:36 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-25 02:53 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-11-24 22:42 -0600
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2017-11-25 10:34 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-25 17:13 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2017-11-25 13:32 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-25 10:38 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-25 19:17 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-26 08:43 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-25 19:46 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-25 11:14 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 08:44 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 03:19 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-22 09:45 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 15:52 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-11-20 12:14 -0700
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 16:45 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-20 17:12 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2017-11-20 13:14 +0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2017-11-19 22:38 -0800
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