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Re: The Right Needs To Stop Falsely Claiming That The Nazis Were Socialists

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

Followups directed to: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.atheism.satire

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Fascism, Nazism and Conservatism

European fascism drew on existing anti-modernist conservatism, and on the 
conservative reaction to communism and 19th-century socialism. 
Conservative thinkers such as historian Oswald Spengler provided much of 
the world view (Weltanschauung) of the Nazi movement. 

In Britain, the conservative Daily Mail enthusiastically backed Sir Oswald 
Mosley's British Union of Fascists, and part of the Conservative Party 
supported closer ties with Nazi Germany. 

When defeat in World War II ideologically and historically discredited 
fascism, almost all Western conservatives tried to distance themselves from 
it. Nevertheless, many post-war Western conservatives continued to admire 
the Franco regime in Spain, clearly conservative but also fascist in 
origin. With the end of the Franco regime and Portugal's Estado Novo in the 
1970s, the relationship between conservatism and classical European fascism 
was further weakened.

Militarism is perhaps the most striking similarity between Fascism and 
contemporary American conservatism. Of course, there are many liberals in 
America who support the military and even call for increased military 
spending. 

Even so, American liberals are traditionally more skeptical of the military 
than American conservatives. It is often said that Neoconservatives, like 
Hitler, see the military as a paradigm for problem solving (even in 
situations that may render militarism impractical or unethical).

The relationship of fascism to right-wing ideologies (including some that 
are described as neo-fascist) is still an issue for conservatives 
and their opponents. Especially in Germany, there is a constant exchange of 
ideology and persons, between the influential national-conservative 
movement, and self-identified national-socialist groups. 
In Italy too, there is no clear line between conservatives, and movements 
inspired by the Italian Fascism of the 1920s to 1940s, including the 
Alleanza Nazionale which is member of the governing coalition under premier 
Silvio Berlusconi. Conservative attitudes to the 20th-century fascist 
regimes are still an issue.




Under an ideological definition of Socialism, for example one stating that 
only a system adhering to the principles of Marxism can qualify as 
socialist there is a well-defined gap between Nazism and socialism. Nazi 
leaders were opposed to the Marxist idea of class conflict and opposed the 
idea that capitalism should be abolished and that workers should control 
the means of production. For those who consider class conflict and the 
abolition of capitalism as essential components of socialism, these factors 
alone are sufficient to categorize "National Socialism" as non-socialist.

===

For socialists who consider democracy a core tenet of socialism, Nazism is 
often seen as a polar opposite of their views. Primo Levi argued that there 
was an important distinction between the policies of Nazi Germany and those 
of the Soviet Union or the People's Republic of China: while they were all 
arguably totalitarian, and all had their idea of what kind of parasitic 
classes or races society ought to be rid of, Levi saw the Nazis assigning a 
place given by birth (since one is born into a certain race), while the 
Soviets and Chinese determined their enemies according to their social 
position (which people may change within their life). There are many other 
philosophical differences between Nazism and Marxism.
There were ideological shades of opinion within the Nazi Party, 
particularly before their seizure of power in 1933, but a central tenet of 
the party was always the leader principle or Führerprinzip. The Nazi Party 
did not have party congresses in which policy was deliberated upon and 
concessions made to different factions. What mattered most was what the 
leader, Adolf Hitler, thought and decreed. Those who held opinions which 
were at variance with Hitler's either learned to keep quiet or were purged, 
particularly after 1933. This is compared to the behavior of certain 
Communist states such as that of Stalin in the Soviet Union or Mao Zedong 
in China.
Critics of this view point out that Mussolini imprisoned Antonio Gramsci 
from 1926 until 1934, after Gramsci, a leader of the Italian Communist 
Party and leading Marxist intellectual, tried to create a common front 
among the political left and the workers, in order to resist and overthrow 
fascism. Other Italian Communist leaders like Palmiro Togliatti went into 
exile and fought for the Republic in Spain.

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Re: The Right Needs To Stop Falsely Claiming That The Nazis Were Socialists Lou Bricano <lb@cap.con> - 2025-02-23 18:42 -0800
  Re: Rudy's mental collapse and his admiration of Trump. "root@45.org" <root@45.org> - 2025-02-24 07:27 +0000
  Re: The Right Needs To Stop Falsely Claiming That The Nazis Were Socialists abelard <abelard@abelard.org> - 2025-02-24 19:15 +0100
    Re: The Right Needs To Stop Falsely Claiming That The Nazis Were Socialists "Hiram" <hiram@far.beg> - 2025-02-24 20:12 +0000
    Re: The Right Needs To Stop Falsely Claiming That The Nazis Were Socialists Ubiquitous <webermark@polaris.net> - 2025-02-24 21:53 +0000
  Re: The Right Needs To Stop Falsely Claiming That The Nazis Were Socialists abelard <abelard@abelard.org> - 2025-02-24 19:37 +0100
    Re: The Right Needs To Stop Falsely Claiming That The Nazis Were Socialists Tom Rennie <x@y.com> - 2025-02-24 21:55 +0000
  Re: The Right Needs To Stop Falsely Claiming That The Nazis Were Socialists abelard <abelard@abelard.org> - 2025-02-24 19:38 +0100

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