Re: OT language stuff (was Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new)

From	blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject	Re: OT language stuff (was Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new)
Date	2011-06-22 20:03 +0000
Organization	None
Message-ID	<96f040F46aU5@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	<it07on$ilc$1@speranza.aioe.org> <alpine.DEB.2.00.1106212257590.6476@urchin.earth.li> <QY9Mp.28015$F25.23411@newsfe04.iad> <nospam-BE4336.23005721062011@news.aioe.org>

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In article <nospam-BE4336.23005721062011@news.aioe.org>,
John B. Matthews <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <QY9Mp.28015$F25.23411@newsfe04.iad>,
>  Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> wrote:
> 
> > On 11-06-21 07:29 PM, Tom Anderson wrote:
> > > On Mon, 20 Jun 2011, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
> > > 
> > >> On 11-06-20 04:19 PM, blmblm@myrealbox.com wrote:
> > >>> In article <fB1Lp.9356$PA5.814@newsfe01.iad>,
> > >>> Arved Sandstrom  <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> wrote:
> > >> [ SNIP ]
> > >>
> > >>>> The best measure of this detailed design document that I 
> > >>>> produced is that, in marked contrast to the usual design docs 
> > >>>> that floated around that office, the higher up the food chain 
> > >>>> you went with it, the less people were able to understand it.
> > >>>
> > >>> "Less" or "fewer"?  (You probably do mean "less", but the 
> > >>> widespread practice of using the former to mean the latter means 
> > >>> that one can't really be sure, maybe.)
> > >>
> > >> I did mean less, but by definition you also would have had fewer 
> > >> people able to understand it. :-)
> > > 
> > > This less/fewer thing is largely dubious:
> > > 
> > > http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/495/less-vs-fewer/505#505
> > > 
> > > I don't think it's defensible to say that Arved's sentence was 
> > > incorrect. Lots of people might not write it that way, but lots 
> > > would, and everyone understands it.

Just for the record, I don't think I meant to claim that there
was anything wrong with Arved's sentence, even to those pedantic
prescriptivists who disapprove of using "less" where "fewer" would
work.  I think there might be a subtle distinction between fewer
people who understand, and people in general understanding less,
but -- maybe not.

> > In fact, in the original construction, if I had written
> > 
> > "the fewer people were able to understand it"
> > 
> > that would have been stilted and wrong. 

Agreed.

> > It's the "the" there that 
> > makes all the difference. I could have written
> > 
> > "...went with it, fewer people were able to understand it."
> > 
> > and that would be OK (if still marginally US Constitution-sounding 
> > like).

I don't think that really works -- "the higher up" seems to me to 
want a parallel "the" before whatever follows the comma.

> > "The less" in my construction actually operates as a single unit. 
> > Although I'm not sure what part of a sentence it corresponds to.
> 
> I read "less" as an adverb modifying "able", moved to enhance 
> parallelism: "The higher ... the less able ..."

I think you may be making the same point here I was getting at just
above ....

-- 
B. L. Massingill
ObDisclaimer:  I don't speak for my employers; they return the favor.

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Class.forName().newInstance() vs new Abu Yahya <abu_yahya@invalid.com> - 2011-06-11 22:43 +0530
  Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> - 2011-06-11 13:46 -0400
  Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-11 19:49 +0200
    Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-06-11 11:04 -0700
      Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new Abu Yahya <abu_yahya@invalid.com> - 2011-06-11 23:52 +0530
      Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-12 14:05 +0200
        Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-06-12 07:10 -0700
          Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-06-12 14:37 +0000
            Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-12 18:17 +0200
              Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-06-12 15:25 -0400
            Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-06-15 06:58 -0700
              Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new Nigel Wade <nmw-news@ion.le.ac.uk> - 2011-06-16 10:16 +0100
          Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-12 18:10 +0200
    Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new Abu Yahya <abu_yahya@invalid.com> - 2011-06-11 23:53 +0530
      Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-06-11 15:43 -0400
        Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-06-11 15:50 -0400
          Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-06-15 06:49 -0700
            Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-06-16 11:21 -0400
              Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-06-17 06:45 -0700
                Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-06-17 12:29 -0400
                Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new Lewis Bloch <lewisbloch@google.com> - 2011-06-17 11:07 -0700
                Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-06-18 02:01 -0400
                Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-06-18 10:19 -0300
                Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-18 20:16 +0200
                OT language stuff (was Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new) blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-06-20 19:19 +0000
                Re: OT language stuff (was Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new) Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-06-20 20:46 +0000
                Re: OT language stuff (was Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new) blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-06-21 20:42 +0000
                Re: OT language stuff (was Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new) Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-21 14:22 -0700
                Re: OT language stuff (was Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new) Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-06-20 18:55 -0300
                Re: OT language stuff (was Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new) Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-06-21 23:29 +0100
                Re: OT language stuff (was Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new) Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-06-21 20:39 -0300
                Re: OT language stuff (was Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new) "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-06-21 23:00 -0400
                Re: OT language stuff (was Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new) Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-06-22 20:02 +0100
                Re: OT language stuff (was Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new) blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-06-22 20:03 +0000
                Re: OT language stuff (was Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new) Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-06-23 12:04 -0400
                Re: OT language stuff (was Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new) Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-06-23 11:58 -0400
                Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-20 14:01 -0700
                Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-06-20 18:53 -0300
                Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-06-21 19:53 -0400
                Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-06-22 20:01 +0000
                Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-06-23 12:16 -0400
                OT language stuff (was Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new) blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-06-20 19:18 +0000
                Re: OT language stuff (was Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new) Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-06-20 20:52 +0000
        Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-12 14:14 +0200
  Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-06-11 11:01 -0700
  Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-06-13 06:16 -0700
  Re: Class.forName().newInstance() vs new Ian Shef <invalid@avoiding.spam> - 2011-06-14 20:07 +0000

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