Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages

From	Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net>
Newsgroups	comp.unix.shell, comp.unix.programmer, comp.lang.misc
Subject	Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages
Date	2024-11-22 11:56 +0000
Message-ID	<87wmgvzdlh.fsf@doppelsaurus.mobileactivedefense.com> (permalink)
References	(11 earlier) <vhkev7$29sc$1@dont-email.me> <vhkh94$2oi3$1@dont-email.me> <vhkvpi$5h8v$1@dont-email.me> <875xohbxre.fsf@doppelsaurus.mobileactivedefense.com> <vhpp2q$15aen$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> writes:
> On 20.11.2024 18:50, Rainer Weikusat wrote:
>> Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> writes:
>> 
>>> Personally I think that writing bulky procedural stuff for something
>>> like [0-9]+ can only be much worse, and that further abbreviations
>>> like \d+ are the better direction to go if targeting a good interface.
>>> YMMV.
>> 
>> Assuming that p is a pointer to the current position in a string, e is a
>> pointer to the end of it (ie, point just past the last byte) and -
>> that's important - both are pointers to unsigned quantities, the 'bulky'
>> C equivalent of [0-9]+ is
>> 
>> while (p < e && *p - '0' < 10) ++p;
>> 
>> That's not too bad. And it's really a hell lot faster than a
>> general-purpose automaton programmed to recognize the same pattern
>> (which might not matter most of the time, but sometimes, it does).
>
> Okay, I see where you're coming from (and especially in that simple
> case).
>
> Personally (and YMMV), even here in this simple case I think that
> using pointers is not better but worse - and anyway isn't [in this
> form] available in most languages;

That's a question of using the proper tool for the job. In C, that's
pointer and pointer arithmetic because it's the simplest way to express
something like this.

> in other cases (and languages)
> such constructs get yet more clumsy, and for my not very complex
> example - /[0-9]+(ABC)?x*foo/ - even a "catastrophe" concerning
> readability, error-proneness, and maintainability.

Procedural code for matching strings constructed in this way is
certainly much simpler¹ than the equally procedural code for a
programmable automaton capable of interpreting regexes. Your statement
is basically "If we assume that the code interpreting regexes doesn't
exist, regexes need much less code than something equivalent which does
exist." Without this assumption, the picture becomes a different one
altogether. 

¹ This doesn't even need a real state machine, just four subroutines
executed in succession (and two of these can share an implementation as
"matching ABC" and "matching foo" are both cases of matching a constant
string. 

> If that is what the other poster meant I'm fine with your answer;
> there's no need to even consider abandoning regular expressions
> in favor of explicitly codified parsing.

This depends on the specific problem and the constraints applicable to a
solution. For the common case, regexes, if easily available, are an
obvious good solution. But not all cases are common.

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Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Bozo User <anthk@disroot.org> - 2024-09-30 20:04 +0000
  Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 21:04 +0000
    Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages usuario <anthk@disroot.org> - 2024-10-01 20:18 +0000
      Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-02 07:10 +0000
        Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages usuario <anthk@disroot.org> - 2024-10-02 12:52 +0000
          Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-02 16:00 +0000
  Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-10-09 22:25 +0100
    Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-10 08:38 +0000
      Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-10-10 16:09 +0100
        Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-10 15:34 +0000
          Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-10-10 17:55 +0100
            Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-10-10 19:14 +0000
              Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-10-10 21:31 +0100
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-10-11 00:09 +0100
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-10-11 15:47 +0100
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-11 15:15 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-10-11 15:45 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-11 15:59 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-10-11 16:28 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-12 08:39 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-10-12 13:53 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-10-12 14:50 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-12 15:32 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-10-12 15:51 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-10-12 16:36 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-13 08:18 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-10-13 13:43 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-13 14:54 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-10-13 15:30 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-13 16:02 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-10-13 20:15 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-14 08:25 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-10-14 13:38 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-14 14:47 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-14 14:53 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-14 17:27 +0200
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-13 21:09 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-13 21:08 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-13 15:08 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-10-13 15:52 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-10-13 17:20 +0100
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-10-13 20:29 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-10-14 01:20 +0100
                Re: On overly rigid definitions (was Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-10-14 00:58 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-13 15:02 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-10-13 16:31 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-10-13 20:06 +0100
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-10-13 20:30 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-11 16:37 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-10-11 19:01 +0100
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-12 08:40 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-11 20:58 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-12 08:42 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-10-12 14:37 +0100
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2024-10-12 17:49 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-13 08:20 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-10-13 21:25 +0100
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-10-12 20:50 +0100
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-12 21:25 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-13 08:22 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-13 20:33 +0000
            Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-10-11 00:07 +0100
              Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-10-11 16:15 +0100
            Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-11 08:17 +0000
              Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-10-11 19:37 +0100
          Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-11 01:33 +0000
        Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Eric Pozharski <apple.universe@posteo.net> - 2024-10-12 16:39 +0000
          Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-13 08:19 +0000
            Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-10-13 14:55 +0200
            Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-10-13 21:33 +0100
              Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-14 08:28 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-10-14 11:38 +0100
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-14 11:05 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-10-14 16:04 +0100
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-14 15:39 +0000
            Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-13 20:34 +0000
      Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Sebastian <sebastian@here.com.invalid> - 2024-11-11 07:31 +0000
        Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-11-11 10:06 +0000
          Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Wolfgang Agnes <wagnes@jemoni.to> - 2024-11-11 08:28 -0300
            Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-11-11 16:21 +0000
          Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-11 20:55 +0000
          Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-11-12 10:14 +0100
            Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-11-12 09:21 +0000
              Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-11-12 10:31 +0100
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-11-12 09:53 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-11-12 15:05 +0100
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-11-12 15:09 +0000
              Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Wolfgang Agnes <wagnes@jemoni.to> - 2024-11-12 13:47 -0300
        Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-11 21:24 +0000
          Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-11-12 10:23 +0100
            Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Wolfgang Agnes <wagnes@jemoni.to> - 2024-11-12 13:50 -0300
            Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-12 20:29 +0000
          Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) - 2024-11-19 18:43 -0800
            Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-20 04:34 +0000
            Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-11-20 08:21 +0000
              Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-11-20 11:51 +0100
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-11-20 11:30 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-11-20 16:38 +0100
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-11-20 16:38 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-11-20 17:54 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-11-20 10:03 -0800
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-11-21 08:18 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-11-21 07:56 -0800
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-11-21 14:13 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-11-21 16:06 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-11-21 08:13 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-11-21 07:58 -0800
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-11-20 17:50 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-11-21 14:40 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-11-21 15:07 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-11-22 13:30 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-11-22 15:41 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-11-22 15:52 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-11-22 17:18 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-11-22 17:35 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-11-22 17:43 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-11-22 17:43 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-11-22 17:17 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-11-22 17:48 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-11-22 18:12 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-11-22 18:48 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-11-22 19:05 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-11-22 19:24 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-11-22 19:46 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-11-22 18:14 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-11-22 18:22 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-11-22 18:30 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-11-22 18:59 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-11-22 19:15 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-11-22 19:26 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-11-22 19:51 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-11-22 12:14 +0100
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-11-22 11:56 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-11-22 20:33 +0100
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-11-21 19:12 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-11-22 10:09 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-11-22 18:18 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-11-23 11:40 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-11-22 12:17 +0100
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-11-22 18:19 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-11-22 20:20 +0100
              Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Ed Morton <mortonspam@gmail.com> - 2024-11-20 05:46 -0600
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-11-20 12:27 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-20 21:43 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-11-21 08:15 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-21 22:05 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-11-22 12:47 +0100
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-22 20:41 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-11-20 16:53 +0100
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Ed Morton <mortonspam@gmail.com> - 2024-11-23 18:17 -0600
              Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-11-20 12:21 +0000
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) - 2024-11-21 05:38 -0800
                Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-11-21 17:01 +0000

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