Re: bart again (UCX64)

From	Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: bart again (UCX64)
Date	2023-09-12 03:58 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<87ledcp05z.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References	(15 earlier) <udmpuu$110jq$1@dont-email.me> <8734zkspd5.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <f7077ac4-908c-41e9-96a0-58cf9df4d494n@googlegroups.com> <87ledcqrp0.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <udo4s3$17hu7$1@dont-email.me>

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Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:

> On 11/09/2023 23:18, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
>> 
>>> On Monday, 11 September 2023 at 16:26:30 UTC+1, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Someone brought up the analogy with a safety belt, but it's no a good
>>>> one. Covering cases that "can't happen" (it used to be called defensive
>>>> programming in another bad analogy with defensive driving) is nothing
>>>> like a safety belt. All it usually does is push the error somewhere
>>>> else, since if the input was "unexpected" the contrived result will be
>>>> too.
>>>>
>>> That analogy was because David Brown was making out that, because I
>>> consider the possibility that there might be errors in my code, I'm
>>> therefore a bad programmer.
>> That seems very unlikely.  Do you have a citation?
>> 
>>> You're right that when a program is incorrect, it's hard to provide correct
>>> behaviour. But things which are liley to be helpful and things which are
>>> likely not to be. Bascially programs fall into two categories.
>> Oh, here we go...
>> 
>>> Life support
>>> systems, where the worst thing you can do is return wrong results. And
>>> video games, where the worst thing you can do is return no results.
>> I am sure you can shoe-horn any other possibility into what you imagine
>> these two categories contain.
>
> You also gave two extreme examples of applications.

I did not (I hope) suggest that there were only two types.  Did I?

> (But I've lost track of the discussion. To backtrack a little, I think it
> was the possibility of NaNs in floating-point values that would have caused
> an example non-void function to unexpectedly hit the closing '}'.)

I think so.  But the discussion is devoid of all useful context.  If the
numbers come, for example, from reading integer registers on hardware,
(and there is no maths library) provided we don't divide by zero you
won't get a floating point NaN.  But maybe that's the kind of bug that
is being envisioned -- get two integers and divide without checking.

But if that's the sort of programmer you have on the team, why worry
about sign() and NaN?  They might write a function that falls off the
end because of a missing case in a switch or a forgotten break.  The
NaNs will be the least of your worries in those cases.

So what is the development process?  Who reviews code?  Are function
contracts checked?  How formally?  Are test cases properly constructed
to give overall coverage?  Are tests run with a run-time code sanitiser?
Can the team use Haskell instead?

-- 
Ben.

Thread

Re: bart again (UCX64) candycane@f172.n1.z21.fsxnet (candycane) - 2023-09-06 19:53 +1300
  Re: bart again (UCX64) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-09-07 12:00 -0700
    Re: bart again (UCX64) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-09-07 16:33 -0700
      Re: bart again (UCX64) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-09-07 20:55 -0700
        Re: bart again (UCX64) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-09-07 22:16 -0700
          Re: bart again (UCX64) Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-08 07:09 +0000
            Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-08 10:10 +0200
              Re: bart again (UCX64) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-09-08 01:30 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-08 11:26 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-09-08 10:44 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-08 13:26 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-09 01:57 +0000
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-09 18:36 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-09 18:19 +0000
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-10 13:28 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-09-10 13:20 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-10 15:19 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-09-10 16:07 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-10 18:33 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-10 15:44 +0000
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-10 18:36 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-09 01:48 +0000
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-09 19:04 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-09-08 02:47 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-08 16:03 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-09-08 16:06 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-09-09 01:52 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-09-08 18:16 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-09-09 21:31 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-10 12:03 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-09-10 21:36 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-11 08:51 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-09-10 23:59 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-09-11 01:01 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-11 11:17 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-09-11 03:16 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-11 14:58 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-09-11 06:35 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-11 14:13 +0000
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-11 16:24 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-09-11 14:55 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-11 16:42 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-11 14:29 +0000
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-09-11 11:25 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-09-11 03:59 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-11 13:57 +0000
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-09-11 09:52 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-11 16:07 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-09-11 16:26 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-09-11 16:47 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-11 19:14 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-09-11 22:30 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-09-11 23:07 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-09-11 23:31 +0000
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-12 09:18 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-09-12 03:01 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-09-11 10:08 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-09-11 23:18 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-09-11 23:37 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-09-11 15:46 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-09-11 23:40 +0000
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-09-12 01:50 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-09-11 17:59 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-09-12 01:03 +0000
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-09-12 02:39 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-09-12 11:28 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-09-12 14:49 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-09-12 15:18 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-09-12 03:58 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-09-12 02:25 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-09-12 16:17 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-09-12 17:28 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-12 21:07 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-09-13 03:01 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-13 09:38 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-13 10:00 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-19 05:22 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-09-19 14:29 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-09-13 13:35 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-09-13 20:48 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-19 05:53 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-09-12 09:33 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-09-12 16:48 +0000
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-09-12 10:57 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-09-12 18:07 +0000
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-12 21:23 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-09-13 02:07 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-13 12:43 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-09-13 04:04 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-13 14:07 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-09-13 01:47 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-13 13:02 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-09-13 04:45 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-13 14:36 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-09-13 13:43 +0000
                Re: bart again (UCX64) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-09-13 11:10 -0400
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-13 17:12 +0000
                [meta] spam in thread Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-09-13 11:22 -0700
                Re: [meta] spam in thread Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-13 18:40 +0000
                Re: [meta] spam in thread Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-09-13 11:48 -0700
                Re: [meta] spam in thread David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-13 21:01 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-09-13 19:58 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-18 12:36 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-09-18 13:40 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-20 19:43 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-09-20 20:14 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-09-20 22:10 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-10-01 11:03 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-09-13 07:39 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-09-13 15:18 +0000
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-13 18:39 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-09-13 15:44 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-09-13 08:42 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-09-13 22:35 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-13 18:49 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-09-11 15:40 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-09-12 03:36 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-12 12:58 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-12 12:49 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-09-12 12:52 +0100
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-09-12 05:22 -0700
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-12 15:05 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-09 02:17 +0000
                Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-10 14:44 +0200
                Re: bart again (UCX64) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-09-08 14:36 +0000
                Re: bart again (UCX64) Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-09 01:50 +0000
                Re: bart again (UCX64) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-09-09 15:40 +0000
          Re: bart again (UCX64) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-08 09:57 +0200
          Re: bart again (UCX64) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-09-09 10:23 -0700

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