Re: question about nullptr

From	Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: question about nullptr
Date	2024-07-08 00:42 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<87jzhwu5v9.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References	(3 earlier) <l9ciO.7$cr5e.2@fx05.iad> <877cdyuq0f.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <2ckiO.19403$7Ej.4487@fx46.iad> <87plrpt4du.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <9bCiO.7108$sXW9.3805@fx41.iad>

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scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:

> Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> writes:
>>scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>>
>>> Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> writes:
>>>>scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>On 06.07.2024 14:54, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-07-06, Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> If you were creating C code today and could use a C23 compiler, would 
>>>>>>>> you use nullptr instead of NULL?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In greenfield projects under my dictatorship, I use 0, as in:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    char *p = 0;
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I was still 20 something when I (easily) wrapped my head around the 0
>>>>>>> null pointer constant, and have not had any problems with it.
>>>>>>> Once I learned the standard-defined truth about null pointer constants,
>>>>>>> and their relationship to the NULL macro, I dropped NULL like a hot
>>>>>>> potato, and didn't look back (except when working in code bases that use
>>>>>>> NULL).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>We also used 0 as "universal" pointer value regularly without
>>>>>>problems.
>>>>
>>>>I also like to use 0, but I'm not sure I could say exactly why.  Maybe
>>>>because of pre-C exposure (B and BCPL).
>>>>
>>>>> Whereas I spent 6 years programming on an architecture[*] where a
>>>>> null pointer was represented in hardware by the value 0xc0eeeeee.  I always
>>>>> use the NULL macro in both C and C++ code.
>>>>
>>>>I'm sure you know (but maybe some other readers might not) that that
>>>>does not stop one using 0 in C source code.  Whatever a null pointer
>>>>"really" is on some hardware, 0 must work in C, including in comparisons
>>>>with == and !=.  You can have
>>>
>>> Yes.  However, I consider that ambiguous, I prefer to be explicit and
>>> use NULL or nullptr.
>>
>>In what sense is using 0 ambiguous?  I can't see it.
>
> the digit zero is context dependent, which makes it ambiguous.

Ah.  I thought we were talking about a pointer context so I thought you
meant that using 0 in a pointer context was ambiguous.  In

  char *p = 0;

the 0 is not ambiguous (i.e. open to more than one meaning).  It's open
to being misunderstood by people who don't know C, but that true of the
'char', the '*' and the '=' (and possibly the 'p' and the ';' too).

> I.e. it can either be a  null pointer or the value zero
> depending on context, which makes it ambiguous to the casual
> reader.  Particularly when reading code that someone
> else has written.  NULL makes the programmers intent crystal
> clear.

That's a rather niche readership -- one that might consider

  char *p = 0;

unclear.  Do you want such people reading your C code with a view to
working on it?

I find myself completely out of step with many posters here about
"explicit code" should look like.  I think

  char *p = 0;

is explicit enough and, in fact, I consider it a plus point if someone
reading it goes "hey, what's going on here?" and ends up learning that 0
is null pointer constant in C.  They may, along the way, learn a few
other things that they should also know before fiddling with the code.
At the very least, they will have learnt that they don't know it all.

-- 
Ben.

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Thread

question about nullptr Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-07-06 08:49 -0300
  Re: question about nullptr Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-07-06 14:13 +0200
  Re: question about nullptr John McCue <jmccue@neutron.jmcunx.com> - 2024-07-06 12:33 +0000
  Re: question about nullptr Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-07-06 12:54 +0000
    Re: question about nullptr Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-07-06 15:07 +0200
      Re: question about nullptr scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-07-06 14:04 +0000
        Re: question about nullptr Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-07-06 16:42 +0200
          Re: question about nullptr Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-07-06 16:45 +0200
        Re: question about nullptr Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2024-07-06 10:50 -0700
          Re: question about nullptr scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-07-06 23:04 +0000
            Re: question about nullptr Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-07-06 20:06 -0700
        Re: question about nullptr bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-07-06 19:20 +0100
          Re: question about nullptr scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-07-06 23:09 +0000
          Re: question about nullptr Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-07-06 16:31 -0700
        Re: question about nullptr "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-07-06 13:23 -0700
          Re: question about nullptr "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-07-06 13:28 -0700
            Re: question about nullptr Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-07 08:01 +0000
              Re: question about nullptr "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-07-08 22:08 -0700
          Re: question about nullptr Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-06 17:04 -0400
            Re: question about nullptr scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-07-06 23:10 +0000
          Re: question about nullptr scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-07-06 23:03 +0000
          Re: question about nullptr James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-07-06 21:44 -0400
            Re: question about nullptr Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-07-06 19:29 -0700
              Re: question about nullptr "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-07-07 12:53 -0700
          Re: question about nullptr Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-07 08:03 +0000
        Re: question about nullptr Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-07-06 23:14 +0100
          Re: question about nullptr scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-07-06 23:13 +0000
            Re: question about nullptr Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-07-06 20:10 -0700
            Re: question about nullptr Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-07-07 08:46 +0000
            Re: question about nullptr Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-07-07 19:59 +0100
              Re: question about nullptr scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-07-07 19:40 +0000
                Re: question about nullptr Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-07-07 15:17 -0700
                Re: question about nullptr Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-07-08 20:11 +0200
                Re: question about nullptr Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-07-08 13:32 -0700
                Re: question about nullptr Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-07-08 22:28 +0300
                Re: question about nullptr "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-07-08 15:23 -0700
                Re: question about nullptr Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-07-09 10:48 +0300
                Re: question about nullptr Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-07-09 04:32 -0700
                Re: question about nullptr Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-07-09 09:10 -0300
                Re: question about nullptr Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-07-09 07:52 -0700
                Re: question about nullptr Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-07-09 13:16 -0300
                Re: question about nullptr Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-07-09 14:22 -0700
                Re: question about nullptr Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-07-09 22:25 +0000
                Re: question about nullptr Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-07-10 08:50 -0300
                Re: question about nullptr Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-07-09 15:50 +0300
                Re: question about nullptr Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-07-09 07:50 -0700
                Re: question about nullptr David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-07-09 18:19 +0200
                Re: question about nullptr Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-07-09 02:49 +0000
                Re: question about nullptr Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-07-09 11:00 +0300
                Re: question about nullptr Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-07-09 08:21 +0000
                Re: question about nullptr Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-07-09 03:57 -0700
                Re: question about nullptr Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-07-08 20:17 -0700
                Re: question about nullptr Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-07-08 21:01 -0700
                Re: question about nullptr "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-07-08 22:06 -0700
                Re: question about nullptr Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-07-10 07:51 -0700
                Re: question about nullptr Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-07-10 14:23 -0700
                Re: question about nullptr James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-07-10 18:50 -0400
                Re: question about nullptr scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-07-08 14:09 +0000
                Re: question about nullptr Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2024-07-08 21:45 -0700
                Re: question about nullptr Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2024-07-08 21:49 -0700
                Re: question about nullptr Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-11 02:42 +0000
                Re: question about nullptr Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-07-08 22:58 -0700
                Re: question about nullptr Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-07-10 07:36 -0700
                Re: question about nullptr Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-07-10 14:15 -0700
                Re: question about nullptr Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-07-08 20:07 +0200
                Re: question about nullptr Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-07-08 23:55 +0100
                Re: question about nullptr Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-07-10 17:28 +0200
                Re: question about nullptr Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-07-11 00:25 +0100
                Re: question about nullptr Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-07-12 14:08 +0200
                Re: question about nullptr Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-07-13 00:59 +0100
                Re: question about nullptr Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-07-13 04:01 +0200
                Re: question about nullptr Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-07-15 00:00 +0100
                Re: question about nullptr Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-07-13 04:18 +0200
                Re: question about nullptr Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-07-17 09:26 -0700
                Re: question about nullptr Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-07-08 12:29 +0200
                Re: question about nullptr Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-07-08 17:23 +0100
                Re: question about nullptr James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-07-08 11:03 -0400
                Re: question about nullptr Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-07-09 02:45 +0000
                Re: question about nullptr Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-07-08 11:08 +0200
                Re: question about nullptr Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-07-08 11:18 +0100
                Re: question about nullptr Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-07-09 02:32 +0000
                Re: question about nullptr "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-07-08 22:02 -0700
                Re: question about nullptr Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-07-09 10:21 +0100
                Re: question about nullptr "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-07-10 17:32 -0700
                Re: question about nullptr Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-07-11 02:12 +0100
                Re: question about nullptr "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-07-10 18:41 -0700
                Re: question about nullptr Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-11 02:38 +0000
                Re: question about nullptr Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-07-12 14:11 +0200
                Re: question about nullptr Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-08 07:18 -0400
                Re: question about nullptr Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-07-08 07:19 +0000
                Re: question about nullptr Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-07-08 00:42 +0100
          Re: question about nullptr Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-07-06 20:36 -0700
      Re: question about nullptr Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-07-06 22:11 +0000
    Re: question about nullptr bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-07-06 14:51 +0100
      Re: question about nullptr Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-07 04:55 +0000
        Re: question about nullptr Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-07-07 00:04 -0700
        Re: question about nullptr bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-07-07 18:40 +0100
    Re: question about nullptr Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-07-12 14:19 +0100
      Re: question about nullptr Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-07-12 21:52 +0000
        Re: question about nullptr scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-07-12 22:27 +0000
          Re: question about nullptr Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-07-12 23:28 +0000
            Re: question about nullptr scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-07-13 00:10 +0000
              Re: question about nullptr James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-07-12 20:28 -0400
              Re: question about nullptr Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-07-12 17:30 -0700
      Re: question about nullptr Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-07-13 17:21 -0700
      Re: question about nullptr Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-15 22:51 +0000
        Re: question about nullptr Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-07-15 16:32 -0700
        Re: question about nullptr James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-07-15 19:49 -0400
          Re: question about nullptr Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-07-15 18:22 -0700
  Re: question about nullptr Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-06 10:39 -0400
    Re: question about nullptr David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-07-06 18:57 +0200
      Re: question about nullptr Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-07 08:00 +0000
        Re: question about nullptr David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-07-07 12:07 +0200
      Re: question about nullptr Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-07-07 08:40 -0300
      Re: question about nullptr Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-07-09 06:42 +0100
        Re: question about nullptr "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-07-08 23:17 -0700
          Re: question about nullptr Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-07-09 08:02 +0100
            Re: question about nullptr "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-07-09 00:12 -0700
              Re: question about nullptr Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-07-09 11:14 +0100
                Re: question about nullptr "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-07-09 13:24 -0700
                Re: question about nullptr "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-07-09 13:28 -0700
                Re: question about nullptr Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-07-10 14:27 +0100
                Re: question about nullptr James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-07-10 11:09 -0400

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