Re: int a = a

From	Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: int a = a
Date	2025-04-28 09:39 -0700
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<86frhs8ckt.fsf@linuxsc.com> (permalink)
References	(11 earlier) <87msdfscxj.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <vrjcd5$18m5n$1@dont-email.me> <87pliaqjb9.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <86a59clr3a.fsf@linuxsc.com> <87ldsw8zer.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>

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Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> writes:

> Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> writes:
>
>> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>>>
>>>> [...]I believe it would be much simpler and clearer if attempting
>>>> to read an uninitialised and unassigned local variable were
>>>> undefined behaviour in every case.
>>>
>>> I probably agree (I haven't given it all that much thought), but
>>> the committee made a specific decision between C90 and C99 to say
>>> that reading an uninitialized automatic object is *not* undefined
>>> behavior.  I'm don't know why they did that (though, all else
>>> being equal, reducing the number of instances of undefined
>>> behavior is a good thing), but reversing that decision for this
>>> one issue is not something they decided to do.
>>
>> Your description of what was done is wrong.  It is still the case in
>> C99 that trying to access an uninitialized object is undefined
>> behavior, at least potentially, except for accesses using a type
>> that either is a character type or has no trap representations (and
>> all types other than unsigned char may have trap representations,
>> depending on the implementation).  A statement like
>>
>>     int a = a;
>>
>> may still be given a warning as potential undefined behavior, even
>> in C99.
>
> I had already mentioned that distinction earlier in the thread.

Oh, I must have missed that.  I don't remember seeing it in
the message I was replying to.

>> The mistake is thinking that UB for uninitialized access was
>> removed in C99.  It wasn't.  Narrowed, yes;  removed, no.
>
> Acknowledged.

Good deal.

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Bart's Language bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-17 23:51 +0000
  Re: Bart's Language antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-03-18 12:17 +0000
    Re: Bart's Language bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-18 13:54 +0000
      Re: Bart's Language antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-03-18 15:10 +0000
        Re: Bart's Language bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-18 15:45 +0000
          Re: Bart's Language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-18 17:31 +0100
            int a = a (Was: Bart's Language) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2025-03-18 18:04 +0000
              Re: int a = a (Was: Bart's Language) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-18 19:36 +0100
                Re: int a = a (Was: Bart's Language) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-18 19:11 +0000
                Re: int a = a (Was: Bart's Language) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-19 15:56 +0100
                Re: int a = a (Was: Bart's Language) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-19 16:38 +0000
                Re: int a = a (Was: Bart's Language) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-03-19 14:29 -0700
                Re: int a = a (Was: Bart's Language) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-20 09:39 +0100
                Re: int a = a (Was: Bart's Language) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-20 11:59 +0000
                Re: int a = a (Was: Bart's Language) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-20 15:46 +0100
                Re: int a = a (Was: Bart's Language) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 23:13 +0800
                Re: int a = a (Was: Bart's Language) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-20 02:02 -0700
                Re: int a = a (Was: Bart's Language) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-20 15:57 +0100
                Re: int a = a (Was: Bart's Language) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-19 17:07 +0000
                Re: int a = a Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-19 13:34 -0700
                Re: int a = a Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-20 02:54 -0700
                Re: int a = a Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 03:20 -0700
                Re: int a = a David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-20 16:22 +0100
                Re: int a = a Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 12:46 -0700
                Re: int a = a David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-21 10:44 +0100
                Re: int a = a Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 12:23 -0700
                Re: int a = a David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-21 21:46 +0100
                Re: int a = a Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-22 13:59 -0700
                Re: int a = a Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 15:37 -0700
                Re: int a = a Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-28 09:39 -0700
                Re: int a = a Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-29 13:12 -0700
                Re: int a = a Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 13:34 -0700
                Re: int a = a David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-20 15:42 +0100
              Re: int a = a (Was: Bart's Language) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-18 19:37 +0000
              Re: int a = a (Was: Bart's Language) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-18 20:51 +0100
                Re: int a = a (Was: Bart's Language) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-18 23:27 +0100
                Re: int a = a (Was: Bart's Language) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-19 11:40 +0100
              Re: int a = a (Was: Bart's Language) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-18 23:52 -0700
                Re: int a = a Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-19 01:55 -0700
                Re: int a = a Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-27 13:41 -0700
                Re: int a = a (Was: Bart's Language) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-19 11:43 +0100
                Re: int a = a (Was: Bart's Language) Rosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid> - 2025-03-19 13:23 +0100
                Re: int a = a (Was: Bart's Language) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-20 01:32 -0700
          Re: Bart's Language antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-03-20 22:55 +0000
            Re: Bart's Language Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 16:22 -0700
              Re: Bart's Language antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-03-22 14:37 +0000
                Re: Bart's Language James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-03-22 11:41 -0400
                Re: Bart's Language antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-03-22 16:52 +0000
                Re: Bart's Language James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-03-22 20:12 -0400
                By definition... (Was: Bart's Language) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2025-03-23 17:20 +0000
              Re: Bart's Language Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-27 11:53 -0700
                Re: Bart's Language Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-27 14:29 -0700
                Re: Bart's Language Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-01-06 14:04 -0800
                Re: Bart's Language Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-01-06 17:12 -0800
                Re: Bart's Language Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-03-06 09:04 -0800
        Re: Bart's Language bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-18 22:19 +0000
          Re: Bart's Language antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-03-20 22:38 +0000
            Re: Bart's Language Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-20 23:45 +0000
              Re: Bart's Language bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-21 00:56 +0000
                Re: Bart's Language Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-21 17:47 +0000
                Re: Bart's Language Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-22 07:12 -0700
            Re: Bart's Language bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-21 00:33 +0000

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