Re: Recursion, Yo

From	Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Recursion, Yo
Date	2024-04-19 08:26 -0700
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<86edb1xtjf.fsf@linuxsc.com> (permalink)
References	(16 earlier) <8734roqmdb.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <uvhm89$3s6na$2@dont-email.me> <uvi79d$2ubl$1@dont-email.me> <uvjs4c$ebsr$1@dont-email.me> <20240416231134.00004066@yahoo.com>

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Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> writes:

> On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 20:36:58 +0200
> Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Algol 68 and C are so different that mutual understanding might be
>> difficult depending on personal background, focus, and fantasy. :-)
>
> Interesting take.
> I never learned Algol-68, but from pieces of info that I occasionally
> got I was always thinking of it as rather similar to 'C'.
> Both languages originated from common ancestor (Algol-60) and changed
> it in similar directions, e.g. blurring the line between operators and
> expression, making function pointers first class citizen, allowing
> declaration of variables at block scope.
> I think, in the past, when I remembered more about Algol-68, I had seen
> more similarities.

Algol 60 already had block scope declarations.

Algol 60 may not have had (pointer to) function/procedure variables,
but it did allow procedure identifiers as arguments to a procedure
call, and procedure variables are an obvious generalization.

Relative to Algol 60, C slightly expanded what forms are allowed in
expressions, but mainly as a way to simplify the language syntax:

  * no separate cases for assignment / function call statements

  * so for()'s are more general and don't need specializing

In contrast, in Algol 68 the notion of "expression" is expanded
to allow the possibility of arbitrary variable declarations and
loops (IIANM; certainly I am not an expert on Algol 68).

Furthermore there are some significant differences between C and
Algol 60:

  * Algol allows nested functions (aka procedures), but C doesn't

  * Algol has call by name, C is strictly call by value

  * Arrays are first class types in Algol, but not in C (and C
    has pointer arithmetic as an essential part of the language,
    which TTBOMK is not the case in any Algol-derived language)

  * Algol is "strict" whereas C is "lax" - for example, in Algol
    the controlling expression of an 'if' statement must be a
    'Boolean expression', whereas in C it's just any expression

To me, Algol 68 represents an expansion and extension of the
Algol 60 language philosophy, whereas C represents a deliberate
departure from that philosophy;  not necessarily a radical
departure, but a departure nonetheless.  Certainly C has some
similarities to Algol 68, but I wouldn't say C and Algol 68
are similar languages, only that they have a few similarities.

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Recursion, Yo Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-04-07 02:58 +0000
  Re: Recursion, Yo fir <fir@grunge.pl> - 2024-04-07 11:52 +0200
    Re: Recursion, Yo Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-04-09 10:25 +0200
      Re: Recursion, Yo Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-04-09 08:43 +0000
        Re: Recursion, Yo Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-04-09 14:27 +0200
          Re: Recursion, Yo Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-04-09 15:27 +0100
            Re: Recursion, Yo Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-04-09 21:55 +0200
              Re: Recursion, Yo Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-04-09 13:31 -0700
                Re: Recursion, Yo Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-04-10 08:30 +0200
        Re: Recursion, Yo bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-04-09 15:02 +0100
      Re: Recursion, Yo Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-04-09 11:44 +0100
        Re: Recursion, Yo Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-04-09 13:25 +0100
        Re: Recursion, Yo Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-04-10 01:50 +0000
          Re: Recursion, Yo "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-04-09 20:54 -0700
          Re: Recursion, Yo David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-04-10 09:11 +0200
            Re: Recursion, Yo Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-04-10 07:52 +0000
              Re: Recursion, Yo David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-04-10 11:18 +0200
                Re: Recursion, Yo bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-04-10 13:42 +0100
                Re: Recursion, Yo David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-04-10 16:46 +0200
                Re: Recursion, Yo Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-04-11 00:18 +0000
                Re: Recursion, Yo Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-04-11 00:54 +0000
                Heh heh...  (Was: Recursion, Yo) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2024-04-11 08:00 +0000
                Re: Heh heh...  (Was: Recursion, Yo) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-04-11 15:13 +0000
                Re: Heh heh...  (Was: Recursion, Yo) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2024-04-11 19:06 +0000
                Re: Recursion, Yo Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-04-11 15:04 +0000
                Re: Recursion, Yo David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-04-11 20:47 +0200
                Re: Recursion, Yo scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-04-11 15:15 +0000
                Re: Recursion, Yo Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-04-12 02:31 +0000
                Re: Recursion, Yo Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-04-12 03:51 +0000
                Re: Recursion, Yo cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-04-12 12:51 +0000
                Re: Recursion, Yo Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-04-12 07:32 +0200
                Re: Recursion, Yo David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-04-12 09:30 +0200
                Re: Recursion, Yo Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-04-12 15:03 +0200
                Re: Recursion, Yo David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-04-12 16:51 +0200
                Re: Recursion, Yo Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-04-13 19:17 +0200
                Re: Recursion, Yo David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-04-13 20:04 +0200
                Re: Recursion, Yo Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-04-13 00:10 +0000
                Re: Recursion, Yo Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-04-12 07:34 +0000
                Re: Recursion, Yo Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-04-12 14:35 +0200
                Re: Recursion, Yo bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-04-12 16:42 +0100
                Re: Recursion, Yo Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-04-13 00:13 +0000
                Re: Recursion, Yo Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-04-13 20:33 +0300
                Re: Recursion, Yo Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-04-14 00:23 +0100
                Re: Recursion, Yo Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-04-14 03:29 +0300
                Re: Recursion, Yo Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-04-15 15:07 +0200
                Re: Recursion, Yo Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-04-15 08:46 -0700
                Re: Recursion, Yo Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-04-15 17:47 +0100
                Re: Recursion, Yo Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-04-15 12:00 -0700
                Re: Recursion, Yo bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-04-15 20:24 +0100
                Re: Recursion, Yo Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-04-15 21:37 +0100
                Re: Recursion, Yo Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-04-15 22:39 +0200
                Re: Recursion, Yo Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-04-15 22:54 +0200
                Re: Recursion, Yo Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-04-15 14:25 -0700
                Re: Recursion, Yo Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-04-14 00:29 +0000
                Re: Recursion, Yo Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-04-13 20:05 -0700
                Re: Recursion, Yo Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-04-13 19:37 +0200
                Re: Recursion, Yo Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-04-14 00:28 +0000
                Re: Recursion, Yo Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-04-14 11:17 +0100
                Re: Recursion, Yo bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-04-14 13:51 +0100
                Re: Recursion, Yo Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-04-14 22:47 +0100
                Re: Recursion, Yo Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-04-14 22:44 +0000
                Re: Recursion, Yo "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-04-14 20:35 -0700
                Re: Recursion, Yo Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-04-15 17:50 +0100
                Re: Recursion, Yo Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-04-15 22:30 +0000
                Re: Recursion, Yo Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-04-17 18:09 +0100
                Re: Recursion, Yo Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-04-17 22:12 +0000
                Re: Recursion, Yo Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-04-22 18:06 +0200
                Re: Recursion, Yo Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-04-15 20:36 +0200
                Re: Recursion, Yo Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-04-15 22:32 +0000
                Re: Recursion, Yo Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-04-22 17:41 +0200
                Re: Recursion, Yo Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-04-16 23:11 +0300
                Re: Recursion, Yo Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-04-19 08:26 -0700
                Re: Recursion, Yo scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-04-19 18:25 +0000
                Re: Recursion, Yo Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-04-19 12:15 -0700
                Re: Recursion, Yo Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-04-20 05:55 -0700
                Re: Recursion, Yo bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-04-19 19:34 +0100
                Re: Recursion, Yo Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-04-20 02:11 +0100
                Re: Recursion, Yo Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-04-19 18:24 -0700
                Re: Recursion, Yo Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-04-20 15:35 +0000
                Re: Recursion, Yo Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-04-19 12:18 -0700
                Re: Recursion, Yo Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-04-20 06:03 -0700
                Re: Recursion, Yo Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-04-22 17:49 +0200
                Re: Recursion, Yo Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-04-15 17:50 +0100
                Re: Recursion, Yo bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-04-12 10:38 +0100
                Re: Recursion, Yo Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-04-12 15:07 +0200
                Re: Recursion, Yo bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-04-12 16:38 +0100
                Re: Recursion, Yo Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-04-12 19:06 -0700
                Re: Recursion, Yo Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-04-13 07:46 -0700
                Re: Recursion, Yo scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-04-11 14:36 +0000
                Re: Recursion, Yo David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-04-11 10:15 +0200
                Re: Recursion, Yo Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-04-11 12:37 -0700
                Re: Recursion, Yo David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-04-12 09:38 +0200
                Re: Recursion, Yo fir <fir@grunge.pl> - 2024-04-14 20:34 +0200
                Re: Recursion, Yo Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-04-10 15:18 +0200
                Re: Recursion, Yo scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-04-10 14:23 +0000
                Re: Recursion, Yo Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-04-11 00:16 +0000
                Re: Recursion, Yo scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-04-11 14:34 +0000
                Re: Recursion, Yo Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-04-12 00:04 +0100
                Re: Recursion, Yo Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-04-10 17:19 +0000
                Re: Recursion, Yo David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-04-10 21:19 +0200
                Re: Recursion, Yo Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-04-11 00:54 +0000
                Re: Recursion, Yo Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-04-11 02:06 +0000
                Re: Recursion, Yo David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-04-11 10:23 +0200
                Re: Recursion, Yo Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-04-11 08:34 +0000
            Re: Recursion, Yo Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-04-10 17:10 +0000
          Re: Recursion, Yo Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-04-10 10:14 -0700
  Re: Recursion, Yo Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-04-09 08:44 +0000

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