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Re: Backwards compatibility and release 1.0

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On 10/13/2015 10:52 AM, Richard Hainsworth wrote:
> Following on the :D not :D thread, something odd stuck out.
>
> On 10/13/2015 03:17 PM, Moritz Lenz wrote:
> <snip>
>>
>> But hopefully none of them breaking backwards compatibility on such a
>> large scale. The last few backwards incompatible changes still cause
>> pain in the ecosystem. We have 390+ modules, and hand-waving away all
>> trouble of maintaining them seems a bit lofty.
> <snip>
>
> Surely, the idea of keeping the release number below 1.0 is to warn
> early adopter developers that code is subject to change and thus in need
> of maintenance?

It is. But we still should try to limit the module author's burden.

In Practice, there's a small number of people who try to update modules 
to match when the compiler changed. Most module authors don't hang out 
in #perl6, eager to update their modules to the lastest rakudo change.

So a large percentage of the module updates are done by group of maybe 
five to a dozen volunteers. So, do the math: 5 people updating 70% of 
390 modules. Modules they are usually not all that familiar with, and 
usually don't have direct access. So they need to go through the pull 
request dance, waiting for reaction from the maintainer. In short, it sucks.

The ecosystem hasn't yet fully recovered from the s/done/done-testing/ 
change, nor from the GLR, nor from the need to prefix 'unit' to some 
declarations.

And this is why I'm getting increasingly frustrated and angry when 
people propose major breaking changes, brushing off the implications for 
the ecosystem and its maintainers with "but it's not 6.0", "shouldn't be 
a problem", "we aren't stable yet".

We want to release Perl 6 by Christmas, and it'll reflect *very* badly 
on us and the language if many modules in the ecosystem are broken. And 
any change that requires us to touch all .pm files will result in that.

Richard, I'm sorry that I'm writing the response in an email of yours; 
Mark or any number of p6l participants in the last few years triggered 
the same mental response from me. I only just now articulated it.

</rant>

Cheers,
Moritz

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Thread

To :D or not to :D mark@overmeer.net (Mark Overmeer) - 2015-10-12 15:41 +0200
  Re: To :D or not to :D moritz@faui2k3.org (Moritz Lenz) - 2015-10-12 17:32 +0200
    Re: To :D or not to :D mark@overmeer.net (Mark Overmeer) - 2015-10-12 21:51 +0200
      Re: To :D or not to :D pmichaud@pobox.com ("Patrick R. Michaud") - 2015-10-12 15:25 -0500
        Re: To :D or not to :D darren@darrenduncan.net (Darren Duncan) - 2015-10-12 13:30 -0700
        Re: To :D or not to :D solutions@overmeer.net (Mark Overmeer) - 2015-10-13 00:32 +0200
          Re: To :D or not to :D pmichaud@pobox.com ("Patrick R. Michaud") - 2015-10-12 20:05 -0500
            Re: To :D or not to :D mark@overmeer.net (Mark Overmeer) - 2015-10-14 13:37 +0200
              Re: To :D or not to :D email@froggs.de (Tobias Leich) - 2015-10-14 14:11 +0200
      Re: To :D or not to :D moritz@faui2k3.org (Moritz Lenz) - 2015-10-13 09:17 +0200
        Re: To :D or not to :D mark@overmeer.net (Mark Overmeer) - 2015-10-13 10:41 +0200
        Backwards compatibility and release 1.0 rnhainsworth@gmail.com (Richard Hainsworth) - 2015-10-13 16:52 +0800
          Re: Backwards compatibility and release 1.0 darren@darrenduncan.net (Darren Duncan) - 2015-10-13 15:33 -0700
          Re: Backwards compatibility and release 1.0 moritz@faui2k3.org (Moritz Lenz) - 2015-10-14 11:54 +0200
            Re: Backwards compatibility and release 1.0 mark@overmeer.net (Mark Overmeer) - 2015-10-14 12:12 +0200
            Exploit the versioning (was Re: Backwards compatibility and release 1.0) darren@darrenduncan.net (Darren Duncan) - 2015-10-14 04:04 -0700
            Re: Backwards compatibility and release 1.0 Smylers@stripey.com (Smylers) - 2015-10-15 09:47 +0100
              Re: Backwards compatibility and release 1.0 email@froggs.de (Tobias Leich) - 2015-10-15 11:06 +0200
                Re: Backwards compatibility and release 1.0 liz@dijkmat.nl (Elizabeth Mattijsen) - 2015-10-15 12:42 +0200
                Re: Backwards compatibility and release 1.0 mark@overmeer.net (Mark Overmeer) - 2015-10-15 12:57 +0200
                Re: Backwards compatibility and release 1.0 liz@dijkmat.nl (Elizabeth Mattijsen) - 2015-10-15 13:13 +0200
              Re: Backwards compatibility and release 1.0 moritz@faui2k3.org (Moritz Lenz) - 2015-10-15 14:13 +0200
            Re: Backwards compatibility and release 1.0 rnhainsworth@gmail.com (Richard Hainsworth) - 2015-10-15 12:48 +0800

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