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Re: functional paradigm taking over

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[Note:  parts of this message were removed to make it a legal post.]

*Mike,*

Mike Stephens wrote:
> This thread has been touching upon three issues - functional languages
> as a way of expressing problems, Excel as a language environment, and
> the programmer.
>
>
>
> When you consider the merits of functional languages, I believe you
> should take into account not only the elegance with which you can
> express what you want to do, or how amenable it is to eg parallel
> processing. You should also consider whether it strikes a better balance
> between such issues and accessibility. Does all your terseness and
> 'elegance' give you a justifiable advantage over something simpler which
> could be more easily handled by a person of less capability?
>    
*You have restated my point in much more pleasant language, and with 
commendable precision. The average person who wishes to program a 
solution to a problem cares not one whit whether the tool they find most 
accessible qualifies as a programming language by another person's 
definition. They just want to get their problem solved. Personally, 
though I have been arguning the side of Excel here, I hate spreadsheets. 
It is arguable that almost anything that can be accomplished with a 
database and implementing language such as SQL can be accomplished with 
a spreadsheet. I just happen to prefer the DB way of describing and 
thinking about data. But, as I have said, I have seen some absolutely 
amazing things doen with spreadsheets. My particular crutch for dealing 
with DB's is Alpha 5, but there are dozens of such solutions out there.

I happen to be a person with 45 years in the computing field, with 
specific knowledge of lambda calculus, Turing completeness, object 
orientation, structured programming, relational databases, and an host 
of other such things, but I have also learned that the real purpose of 
computer programs is to get work done unless I am specifically 
researching computing as a science. "Turing completeness" is a term of 
art that could be replaced in the minds of 99.9% of even fairly 
technically competent programmers with any other reference for which 
they have poor understanding. If being TC means that the tool can get 
the job done accurately and efficiently, including the time that it 
takes to create a program, then they are all for it. Most could not even 
accurately describe a Turing machine in the original sense of that 
definition.

Denigrating another person's choice of tools will certainly not make 
that person likely to seek your advice again, nor consider you helpful. 
If you have confused your switchblade with a Swiss Army knife, then you 
are more foolish than the person you are denigrating. Since this is a 
Ruby forum, sometimes the best answer is to refer a person to docs 
and/or books for deeper learning rather than try to answer the first 
problem that they run into as if that will really help them make 
efficient use of Ruby. Help with installing and making Ruby work 
properly are always appropriate, but only time and study and practice 
will actually allow people to program with any confidence. When people 
come from other programming disciplines, comparison of modalities and 
techniques are usually helpful, but fanboy expressions of "mine is 
bigger and/or better than yours" are not.

Eveerett L.(Rett) Williams II
*

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[OT] functional paradigm taking over Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-03-30 02:29 -0500
  Lambda Shambda Mike Stephens <rubfor@recitel.net> - 2011-03-30 04:38 -0500
    Re: Lambda Shambda Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-03-30 10:19 -0500
      Re: Lambda Shambda Mike Stephens <rubfor@recitel.net> - 2011-03-30 12:27 -0500
      Re: Lambda Shambda 7stud -- <bbxx789_05ss@yahoo.com> - 2011-03-30 20:49 -0500
      Re: Lambda Shambda Phillip Gawlowski <cmdjackryan@googlemail.com> - 2011-03-30 22:30 -0500
        Re: Lambda Shambda Mike Stephens <rubfor@recitel.net> - 2011-03-31 05:08 -0500
          Re: Lambda Shambda Josh Cheek <josh.cheek@gmail.com> - 2011-04-02 15:07 -0500
            Re: Lambda Shambda Mike Stephens <rubfor@recitel.net> - 2011-04-03 00:29 -0500
              Re: Lambda Shambda Phillip Gawlowski <cmdjackryan@googlemail.com> - 2011-04-03 02:48 -0500
                Re: Lambda Shambda Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-04-03 12:58 +0200
                Re: Lambda Shambda Phillip Gawlowski <cmdjackryan@googlemail.com> - 2011-04-03 06:50 -0500
                Re: Lambda Shambda Josh Cheek <josh.cheek@gmail.com> - 2011-04-03 13:59 -0500
                Re: Lambda Shambda Johnny Morrice <spoon@killersmurf.com> - 2011-04-03 15:06 -0500
                Re: Lambda Shambda Josh Cheek <josh.cheek@gmail.com> - 2011-04-03 15:56 -0500
                Re: Lambda Shambda Everett L Williams II <rett@classicnet.net> - 2011-04-03 07:17 -0500
                Re: Lambda Shambda Phillip Gawlowski <cmdjackryan@googlemail.com> - 2011-04-03 07:47 -0500
                Why should I be a programmer, to program? Mike Stephens <rubfor@recitel.net> - 2011-04-03 13:44 -0500
                Re: Why should I be a programmer, to program? Phillip Gawlowski <cmdjackryan@googlemail.com> - 2011-04-03 14:45 -0500
                Re: Why should I be a programmer, to program? Johnny Morrice <spoon@killersmurf.com> - 2011-04-03 15:58 -0500
                Re: Why should I be a programmer, to program? Josh Cheek <josh.cheek@gmail.com> - 2011-04-03 15:21 -0500
                Re: Why should I be a programmer, to program? serialhex <serialhex@gmail.com> - 2011-04-03 15:34 -0500
                Re: Why should I be a programmer, to program? - OT Chris <chris@s-4-u.net> - 2011-04-03 15:53 -0500
                Re: Why should I be a programmer, to program? Petite Abeille <petite.abeille@gmail.com> - 2011-04-03 16:01 -0500
                Re: Why should I be a programmer, to program? - OT Chris <chris@s-4-u.net> - 2011-04-03 16:42 -0500
                Re: Lambda Shambda Everett L Williams II <rett@classicnet.net> - 2011-04-04 04:23 -0500
                Re: Lambda Shambda Phillip Gawlowski <cmdjackryan@googlemail.com> - 2011-04-04 04:52 -0500
                Re: Lambda Shambda Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-04-04 06:19 -0500
                Re: Lambda Shambda Martin DeMello <martindemello@gmail.com> - 2011-04-03 08:13 -0500
                Re: Lambda Shambda Phillip Gawlowski <cmdjackryan@googlemail.com> - 2011-04-04 00:55 -0500
                Re: Lambda Shambda Phillip Gawlowski <cmdjackryan@googlemail.com> - 2011-04-04 10:16 -0500
                Re: Lambda Shambda Iain Barnett <iainspeed@gmail.com> - 2011-04-04 15:50 -0500
              Re: Lambda Shambda Phillip Gawlowski <cmdjackryan@googlemail.com> - 2011-04-03 15:07 -0500
          Re: Lambda Shambda Johnny Morrice <spoon@killersmurf.com> - 2011-04-03 06:05 -0500
        Re: Lambda Shambda Phillip Gawlowski <cmdjackryan@googlemail.com> - 2011-03-31 13:56 -0500
  Re: [OT] functional paradigm taking over Martin DeMello <martindemello@gmail.com> - 2011-03-30 15:46 -0500
  Re: functional paradigm taking over Mike Stephens <rubfor@recitel.net> - 2011-04-04 04:05 -0500
    Re: functional paradigm taking over Johnny Morrice <spoon@killersmurf.com> - 2011-04-04 04:21 -0500
    Re: functional paradigm taking over Johnny Morrice <spoon@killersmurf.com> - 2011-04-04 04:25 -0500
    Re: functional paradigm taking over Stu <stu@rubyprogrammer.net> - 2011-04-04 04:28 -0500
      Re: functional paradigm taking over Robert Dober <robert.dober@gmail.com> - 2011-04-04 06:49 -0500
    Re: functional paradigm taking over Phillip Gawlowski <cmdjackryan@googlemail.com> - 2011-04-04 05:00 -0500
      Re: functional paradigm taking over Johnny Morrice <spoon@killersmurf.com> - 2011-04-04 05:15 -0500
        Re: functional paradigm taking over Phillip Gawlowski <cmdjackryan@googlemail.com> - 2011-04-04 05:18 -0500
    Re: functional paradigm taking over Everett L Williams II <rett@classicnet.net> - 2011-04-04 06:31 -0500
      Re: functional paradigm taking over Johnny Morrice <spoon@killersmurf.com> - 2011-04-04 07:17 -0500
        Re: functional paradigm taking over Johnny Morrice <spoon@killersmurf.com> - 2011-04-04 07:29 -0500
          Re: functional paradigm taking over Johnny Morrice <spoon@killersmurf.com> - 2011-04-04 10:42 -0500
            Re: functional paradigm taking over Michal Suchanek <hramrach@centrum.cz> - 2011-04-04 12:43 -0500
            Re: functional paradigm taking over Robert Dober <robert.dober@gmail.com> - 2011-04-10 11:59 -0500
              Re: functional paradigm taking over Kevin <darkintent@gmail.com> - 2011-04-12 01:18 -0500
                Re: functional paradigm taking over Kevin <darkintent@gmail.com> - 2011-04-12 01:22 -0500
                Re: functional paradigm taking over Phillip Gawlowski <cmdjackryan@googlemail.com> - 2011-04-12 02:09 -0500
                Re: functional paradigm taking over Phillip Gawlowski <cmdjackryan@googlemail.com> - 2011-04-12 02:11 -0500
                Re: functional paradigm taking over Kevin <darkintent@gmail.com> - 2011-04-12 02:47 -0500
                Re: functional paradigm taking over Phillip Gawlowski <cmdjackryan@googlemail.com> - 2011-04-12 03:40 -0500
                Re: functional paradigm taking over Kevin <darkintent@gmail.com> - 2011-04-13 00:53 -0500
                Re: functional paradigm taking over Josh Cheek <josh.cheek@gmail.com> - 2011-04-13 01:02 -0500
                Re: functional paradigm taking over Kevin <darkintent@gmail.com> - 2011-04-13 01:38 -0500
                Re: functional paradigm taking over Kevin <darkintent@gmail.com> - 2011-04-13 01:46 -0500
                Re: functional paradigm taking over Josh Cheek <josh.cheek@gmail.com> - 2011-04-13 02:46 -0500
                Re: functional paradigm taking over Phillip Gawlowski <cmdjackryan@googlemail.com> - 2011-04-13 03:52 -0500
                Re: functional paradigm taking over Kevin <darkintent@gmail.com> - 2011-04-13 09:59 -0500
                Re: functional paradigm taking over Phillip Gawlowski <cmdjackryan@googlemail.com> - 2011-04-13 10:16 -0500
                Re: functional paradigm taking over Kevin <darkintent@gmail.com> - 2011-04-13 11:18 -0500
                Re: functional paradigm taking over serialhex <serialhex@gmail.com> - 2011-04-13 14:41 -0500
                Re: functional paradigm taking over Kevin <darkintent@gmail.com> - 2011-04-13 15:34 -0500
                Re: functional paradigm taking over Peter Hickman <peterhickman386@googlemail.com> - 2011-04-13 10:17 -0500
                Re: functional paradigm taking over Kevin <darkintent@gmail.com> - 2011-04-13 18:44 -0500
                Re: functional paradigm taking over Kevin <darkintent@gmail.com> - 2011-04-14 00:32 -0500
                Re: functional paradigm taking over Michal Suchanek <hramrach@centrum.cz> - 2011-04-14 05:06 -0500
                Re: functional paradigm taking over Mike Stephens <rubfor@recitel.net> - 2011-04-15 01:25 -0500
      Re: functional paradigm taking over Josh Cheek <josh.cheek@gmail.com> - 2011-04-04 07:41 -0500
        Re: functional paradigm taking over Michal Suchanek <hramrach@centrum.cz> - 2011-04-04 07:56 -0500
        Re: functional paradigm taking over Stu <stu@rubyprogrammer.net> - 2011-04-05 03:58 -0500
          Re: functional paradigm taking over Phillip Gawlowski <cmdjackryan@googlemail.com> - 2011-04-05 04:12 -0500
            Re: functional paradigm taking over Stu <stu@rubyprogrammer.net> - 2011-04-05 16:57 -0500
      Re: functional paradigm taking over Everett L Williams II <rett@classicnet.net> - 2011-04-07 10:51 -0500
        Re: functional paradigm taking over Josh Cheek <josh.cheek@gmail.com> - 2011-04-07 18:42 -0500
          Re: functional paradigm taking over Alex Stahl <astahl@hi5.com> - 2011-04-07 20:26 -0500
        Re: functional paradigm taking over Mike Stephens <rubfor@recitel.net> - 2011-04-07 22:14 -0500
          Re: functional paradigm taking over Johnny Morrice <spoon@killersmurf.com> - 2011-04-08 06:10 -0500
          Re: functional paradigm taking over Everett L Williams II <rett@classicnet.net> - 2011-04-08 13:58 -0500
  Re: functional paradigm taking over Mike Stephens <rubfor@recitel.net> - 2011-04-08 16:04 -0500
    Re: functional paradigm taking over Josh Cheek <josh.cheek@gmail.com> - 2011-04-08 19:12 -0500
  Re: functional paradigm taking over Mike Stephens <rubfor@recitel.net> - 2011-04-12 07:31 -0500
    Re: functional paradigm taking over Phillip Gawlowski <cmdjackryan@googlemail.com> - 2011-04-12 11:22 -0500
  Re: functional paradigm taking over Gregory Vella <gregory_vella@yahoo.com> - 2011-04-13 14:49 -0500
    Re: functional paradigm taking over Kevin <darkintent@gmail.com> - 2011-04-13 15:59 -0500
  Re: functional paradigm taking over Mike Stephens <rubfor@recitel.net> - 2011-04-14 02:28 -0500
    Re: functional paradigm taking over Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-04-14 03:29 -0500
      Re: functional paradigm taking over Josh Cheek <josh.cheek@gmail.com> - 2011-04-14 05:01 -0500

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