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Re: Gartner now recommending the mainframe as a possible option

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In article <10tgb1a$1gmgv$1@dont-email.me>,
David Wade  <dave@g4ugm.invalid> wrote:
>On 06/05/2026 22:02, Alexander Schreiber wrote:
>> Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:
>>> Greetings to all the residents of this dimension!
>>>
>>> I come from a dimension where our version of Gartner has spent the last
>>> 20+ years saying the mainframe is obsolete, in urgent need of replacement,
>>> and dismissing anyone staying with this technology as dinosaurs, etc, etc.
>>>
>>> I see that in this dimension Gartner actively recommends some people
>>> consider moving from VMware to the mainframe in order to run their
>>> Linux VMs:
>>>
>>> https://www.theregister.com/2026/05/04/gartner_state_of_mainframes/
>>>
>>> This is an interesting dimension to live in...
>>>
>>> Simon.
>>>
>>> PS: Sorry :-), but, seriously, what the hell ??? Gartner saying this ???
>
>Look, Broadcom have basically taken a leaf out of IBMs book of assuming 
>its customers had no where else to go and so it can screw them into the 
>ground.
>
>So whilst I normally talk IBM down the game has moved on. I think in 
>many ways it could make sense for some big customers. The current Z 
>boxes are nothing like the mainframes of old. They are amazing feats of 
>engineering built to run the systems of the largest banks or airline 
>reservation systems. Go read some of the IBM papers on the hardware 
>design. They have innovative features not found in VMware farms. Yes 
>they are lacking some other features, but Broadcom has really tried to 
>screw its customers.
>
>So whilst when running "traditional" workloads the pricing for Z 
>exploits the fact that migrations are expensive and is I would say 
>"usury" with a very tight enforced hardware and software upgrade cycle 
>if you want to remain supported, which for those wanting PCI or HIPAA 
>compliance is a necessity.
>
>However the pricing for them for running Linux on them is competitive 
>with WinTel servers. It pretty much has to be the case otherwise no one 
>would buy them. So for some it could be an option.

Telum II is a pretty impressive chip: the virtual cache thing is
neat.  And as you point out, it _can_ be cost-competitive with
x86 servers, but I bet our stuff at work would give it a run for
its money.

The problem with Z beyond that is two-fold:

First, you lose binary compatibility with x86; Linux works
because there is a port to Z, but if you need a Windows VM (or
VMS?), or need to host a binary-only application, you're out of
luck.  And there is still a lot of Windows out there running
under ESXi.

Second, you get locked into IBM's system management/RAS
ecosystem.  Are you running Linux on bare metal?  In an LPAR?
Under VM?  IBM may have invented virtualization, but if you go
with their solution, you are entering their unique world; caveat
emptor.

A lot of customers are probably better served with something
like Oxide for an integrated solution, or Proxmox for an
open-source route.

	- Dan C.

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Gartner now recommending the mainframe as a possible option Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2026-05-05 18:30 +0000
  Re: Gartner now recommending the mainframe as a possible option Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2026-05-05 16:39 -0400
    Re: Gartner now recommending the mainframe as a possible option Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-05 22:00 +0000
  Re: Gartner now recommending the mainframe as a possible option jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-05-06 18:58 +0100
    Re: Gartner now recommending the mainframe as a possible option Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2026-05-07 12:39 +0000
      Re: Gartner now recommending the mainframe as a possible option Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2026-05-07 16:32 -0400
        Re: Gartner now recommending the mainframe as a possible option Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2026-05-07 16:45 -0400
        Re: Gartner now recommending the mainframe as a possible option cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-05-08 10:44 +0000
        Re: Gartner now recommending the mainframe as a possible option jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-05-08 12:57 +0100
  Re: Gartner now recommending the mainframe as a possible option Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-05-06 22:02 +0200
    Re: Gartner now recommending the mainframe as a possible option kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-05-06 17:09 -0400
      Re: Gartner now recommending the mainframe as a possible option cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-05-06 22:10 +0000
    Re: Gartner now recommending the mainframe as a possible option David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> - 2026-05-06 23:15 +0200
      Re: Gartner now recommending the mainframe as a possible option cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-05-06 22:26 +0000
        Re: Gartner now recommending the mainframe as a possible option David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> - 2026-05-07 09:00 +0200
          Re: Gartner now recommending the mainframe as a possible option cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-05-08 11:19 +0000
            Re: Gartner now recommending the mainframe as a possible option David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> - 2026-05-08 15:01 +0200
              Re: Gartner now recommending the mainframe as a possible option Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-08 21:12 +0000
              Re: Gartner now recommending the mainframe as a possible option cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-05-10 19:56 +0000

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