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Apple wired keyboard - single letter wrong

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  Apple wired keyboard - single letter wrong Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> - 2017-03-25 09:09 +0000
    Re: Apple wired keyboard - single letter wrong richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2017-03-25 09:43 +0000
      Re: Apple wired keyboard - single letter wrong Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> - 2017-03-25 10:45 +0000
      Re: Apple wired keyboard - single letter wrong Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2017-03-25 22:11 +0100
        Re: Apple wired keyboard - single letter wrong richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2017-03-25 21:58 +0000
          Re: Apple wired keyboard - single letter wrong Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2017-03-27 01:13 +0200
          Re: Apple wired keyboard - single letter wrong Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> - 2017-03-27 16:13 +0100
    Re: Apple wired keyboard - single letter wrong Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2017-03-25 09:55 +0000
      Re: Apple wired keyboard - single letter wrong Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> - 2017-03-25 10:57 +0000
    Re: Apple wired keyboard - single letter wrong pfjames@google.com (PeteFJ) - 2017-03-26 08:29 +0100
      Re: Apple wired keyboard - single letter wrong Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> - 2017-03-26 09:38 +0100
        Re: Apple wired keyboard - single letter wrong black.hole@jonbradbury.com (Jon B) - 2017-03-26 10:41 +0100
        Re: Apple wired keyboard - single letter wrong Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> - 2017-04-29 22:57 +0100
          Re: Apple wired keyboard - single letter wrong Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2017-04-30 13:19 +0200
            Re: Apple wired keyboard - single letter wrong me32@privacy.net (R) - 2017-05-17 09:13 +0100
    Re: Apple wired keyboard - single letter wrong nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2017-03-27 10:49 +0100
      Re: Apple wired keyboard - single letter wrong Chris Ridd <chrisridd@mac.com> - 2017-03-27 12:54 +0100
        Re: Apple wired keyboard - single letter wrong Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> - 2017-03-27 16:12 +0100

#116646 — Apple wired keyboard - single letter wrong

Odd one. I have a model A1234 Mac wired keyboard (the one with the 
number pad). All of it works except a single key - 'x'. Instead of 
typing an 'x', it types a '`' (backtick) character instead.

I find this really odd - can understand several keys being wrong as 
maybe being a membrane or controller issue. But just one? It's 
consistent across multiple machines as well.

Is there anything on the keyboard itself that could be causing multiple 
machine to recognise it this way? Would like to know before I go to the 
inevitable unscrew-the-keyboard-and-poke-about stage (invariably 
leading to the "damn, needs throwing away" stage).


Cheers,
Ian

-- 
Check out Proto the album: <http://studioicm.com/proto/>

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#116648

In article <ejmqf6F4j7hU1@mid.individual.net>,
Ian McCall  <ian@eruvia.org> wrote:

>Odd one. I have a model A1234 Mac wired keyboard (the one with the 
>number pad). All of it works except a single key - 'x'. Instead of 
>typing an 'x', it types a '`' (backtick) character instead.
>
>I find this really odd - can understand several keys being wrong as 
>maybe being a membrane or controller issue. But just one? It's 
>consistent across multiple machines as well.

It could be a broken circuit board track in the keyboard itself.
What does it do when the shift key is pressed?

-- Richard

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#116650

On 2017-03-25 09:43:45 +0000, richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) said:

> In article <ejmqf6F4j7hU1@mid.individual.net>,
> Ian McCall  <ian@eruvia.org> wrote:
> 
>> Odd one. I have a model A1234 Mac wired keyboard (the one with the
>> number pad). All of it works except a single key - 'x'. Instead of
>> typing an 'x', it types a '`' (backtick) character instead.
>> 
>> I find this really odd - can understand several keys being wrong as
>> maybe being a membrane or controller issue. But just one? It's
>> consistent across multiple machines as well.
> 
> It could be a broken circuit board track in the keyboard itself.
> What does it do when the shift key is pressed?

~, which is consistent with it thinking the key is the key for `.


Cheers,
Ian

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#116670

On 2017-03-25, Richard Tobin <richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
> In article <ejmqf6F4j7hU1@mid.individual.net>,
> Ian McCall  <ian@eruvia.org> wrote:
>
>>Odd one. I have a model A1234 Mac wired keyboard (the one with the 
>>number pad). All of it works except a single key - 'x'. Instead of 
>>typing an 'x', it types a '`' (backtick) character instead.
>>
>>I find this really odd - can understand several keys being wrong as 
>>maybe being a membrane or controller issue. But just one? It's 
>>consistent across multiple machines as well.
>
> It could be a broken circuit board track in the keyboard itself.
> What does it do when the shift key is pressed?

I look for bits getting set or dropped when I see this sort of stuff.

'x' has Ascii value 120, octal value 170
'`' has Ascii value 96, octal value 140

My experience of Apple wired keyboards going duff (usually after a cup
of tea has tipped over) is that keys go completely dead, and the area
spreads to affect the surrounding keys over a few days.

Which doesn't sound like what's happening here.

I'd be thinking of junking this particular keyboard.

-- 
A supercomputer is a device for turning compute-bound problems into
I/O-bound problems.                                 ---Ken Batcher

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#116671

In article <b13jqd-7ik.ln1@news.chingola.ch>,
Paul Sture  <nospam@sture.ch> wrote:

>> It could be a broken circuit board track in the keyboard itself.
>> What does it do when the shift key is pressed?

>I look for bits getting set or dropped when I see this sort of stuff.
>
>'x' has Ascii value 120, octal value 170
>'`' has Ascii value 96, octal value 140

I don't know what Apple keyboards are like inside, but the codes at
the circuit board level are probably unrelated to the ascii values.
They are more likely to be based on the rows of keys on the keyboard
instead.

The row in question is (at least on the keyboard I'm looking at)
shift, backquote, Z, X, ... so X might well be *3 and backquote *1,
which would be a single bit error.

>I'd be thinking of junking this particular keyboard.

Me too.

-- Richard

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#116698

On 2017-03-25, Richard Tobin <richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
> In article <b13jqd-7ik.ln1@news.chingola.ch>,
> Paul Sture  <nospam@sture.ch> wrote:
>
>>> It could be a broken circuit board track in the keyboard itself.
>>> What does it do when the shift key is pressed?
>
>>I look for bits getting set or dropped when I see this sort of stuff.
>>
>>'x' has Ascii value 120, octal value 170
>>'`' has Ascii value 96, octal value 140
>
> I don't know what Apple keyboards are like inside, but the codes at
> the circuit board level are probably unrelated to the ascii values.
> They are more likely to be based on the rows of keys on the keyboard
> instead.

That makes sense.

> The row in question is (at least on the keyboard I'm looking at)
> shift, backquote, Z, X, ... so X might well be *3 and backquote *1,
> which would be a single bit error.

Got it, and looking at the US layout PC keyboard I am using (a Cherry),
I can finally see why the logic in the default mapping under VMware
Fusion for Linux clients using a Swiss keyboard gets it wrong for
the *1 key (i.e. the one immediately to the right of left shift)

It's complex :-)

>>I'd be thinking of junking this particular keyboard.
>
> Me too.


-- 
A supercomputer is a device for turning compute-bound problems into
I/O-bound problems.                                 ---Ken Batcher

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#116716

On 2017-03-25 21:58:24 +0000, richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) said:

> The row in question is (at least on the keyboard I'm looking at)
> shift, backquote, Z, X, ... so X might well be *3 and backquote *1,
> which would be a single bit error.

Aaah. See - I was looking for controller errors which typically go in 
columns. Hadn't thought of a bit-flip error. Yes, that makes sense.


Cheers,
Ian
-- 
Check out Proto the album: <http://studioicm.com/proto/>

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#116649

In article <ejmqf6F4j7hU1@mid.individual.net>, Ian McCall
<ian@eruvia.org> wrote:

>Odd one. I have a model A1234 Mac wired keyboard (the one with the 
>number pad). All of it works except a single key - 'x'. Instead of 
>typing an 'x', it types a '`' (backtick) character instead.
>
>I find this really odd - can understand several keys being wrong as 
>maybe being a membrane or controller issue. But just one? It's 
>consistent across multiple machines as well.
>
>Is there anything on the keyboard itself that could be causing multiple 
>machine to recognise it this way? Would like to know before I go to the 
>inevitable unscrew-the-keyboard-and-poke-about stage (invariably 
>leading to the "damn, needs throwing away" stage).

What does Keyboard Viewer show?

-- 
"A committee is a cul-de-sac down which ideas are lured and then 
 quietly strangled." - Sir Barnett Cocks (1907-1989)

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#116651

On 2017-03-25 09:55:44 +0000, Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> said:

> In article <ejmqf6F4j7hU1@mid.individual.net>, Ian McCall
> <ian@eruvia.org> wrote:
> 
>> Odd one. I have a model A1234 Mac wired keyboard (the one with the 
>> number pad). All of it works except a single key - 'x'. Instead of 
>> typing an 'x', it types a '`' (backtick) character instead.
>> 
>> I find this really odd - can understand several keys being wrong as 
>> maybe being a membrane or controller issue. But just one? It's 
>> consistent across multiple machines as well.
>> 
>> Is there anything on the keyboard itself that could be causing multiple 
>> machine to recognise it this way? Would like to know before I go to the 
>> inevitable unscrew-the-keyboard-and-poke-about stage (invariably 
>> leading to the "damn, needs throwing away" stage).
> 
> What does Keyboard Viewer show?

Can't find Keyboard Viewer anymore - odd (using Sierra). In keyboard 
preferences, input sources shows me as using a British keyboard layout, 
with zx in the right place.


Cheers,
Ian

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#116677

Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> wrote:

> Odd one. I have a model A1234 Mac wired keyboard (the one with the 
> number pad). All of it works except a single key - 'x'. Instead of 
> typing an 'x', it types a '`' (backtick) character instead.
>snipped
When anything goes wrong with my Mac wired keyboard I stick it under the
hot tap and give it a thorough wash out.  Drain it upright it on the
draining board for a couple of hours and then wrap it in a couple of tea
towels and stick it in a warm airing cupboard for a week.

I've done this to my wired keyboard on many occasions.  The first time
was an attempt of despair because nothing else worked and I couldn't
afford a new k/b and subsequent times because it works.

Try it.  You've got nothing to lose.

Peter

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#116680

On 2017-03-26 07:29:48 +0000, pfjames@google.com (PeteFJ) said:

> Try it.  You've got nothing to lose.

This is a fair point - dead is dead. The only downside to me is 
delaying eBay'ing an iMac by a week, and that's fine. I'm trying to 
decide if I can sell this keyboard alongside it - looking like a no, 
but I may as well do the wash-it-all-out-and-see-what-happens trick.


Cheers,
Ian

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#116682

Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> wrote:

> On 2017-03-26 07:29:48 +0000, pfjames@google.com (PeteFJ) said:
> 
> > Try it.  You've got nothing to lose.
> 
> This is a fair point - dead is dead. The only downside to me is 
> delaying eBay'ing an iMac by a week, and that's fine. I'm trying to 
> decide if I can sell this keyboard alongside it - looking like a no, 
> but I may as well do the wash-it-all-out-and-see-what-happens trick.
> 
If it fails I've got some wireless ones listed below, much cheaper than
a new wired
-- 
Jon B
Above email address IS valid.
<http://www.bramley-computers.co.uk/>

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#117509

On 2017-03-26 08:38:47 +0000, Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> said:

> On 2017-03-26 07:29:48 +0000, pfjames@google.com (PeteFJ) said:
> 
>> Try it.  You've got nothing to lose.
> 
> This is a fair point - dead is dead. The only downside to me is 
> delaying eBay'ing an iMac by a week, and that's fine. I'm trying to 
> decide if I can sell this keyboard alongside it - looking like a no, 
> but I may as well do the wash-it-all-out-and-see-what-happens trick.

Finally got round to doing this and the result is...different.

Every key except x still works. Now, however, instead of getting a ` 
character when pressing it I get BOTH x and ` - in other words "x`". I 
also get "w<tab>" when pressing the tab key, and "w<tab>" when pressing 
the w key.

It's dead Jim.


Cheers,
Ian

-- 
Check out Proto the album: <http://studioicm.com/proto/>

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#117515

On 2017-04-29, Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> wrote:
> On 2017-03-26 08:38:47 +0000, Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> said:
>
>> On 2017-03-26 07:29:48 +0000, pfjames@google.com (PeteFJ) said:
>> 
>>> Try it.  You've got nothing to lose.
>> 
>> This is a fair point - dead is dead. The only downside to me is 
>> delaying eBay'ing an iMac by a week, and that's fine. I'm trying to 
>> decide if I can sell this keyboard alongside it - looking like a no, 
>> but I may as well do the wash-it-all-out-and-see-what-happens trick.
>
> Finally got round to doing this and the result is...different.
>
> Every key except x still works. Now, however, instead of getting a ` 
> character when pressing it I get BOTH x and ` - in other words "x`". I 
> also get "w<tab>" when pressing the tab key, and "w<tab>" when pressing 
> the w key.
>
> It's dead Jim.

Ah well, nobody can say you didn't try :-)

-- 
Everybody has a testing environment. Some people are lucky enough to
have a totally separate environment to run production in.

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#117676

I recently encountered this in Zeit Online:

"Sie ist gerade dabei, eine Mail an einen Bekannten zu schreiben, den
lieben René, aber sie scheitert schon bei der Anrede: Der kleine Strich
über dem é, der Accent aigu, will nicht erscheinen. Haydt drückt die
Taste. Nichts passiert. Sie drückt erneut, wieder und wieder. Keine
Reaktion."

Claudia Haydt is pressing the key, but nothing is happening. She calls
in tech. support and so begins the discovery that the Bundestag network
had been hacked.

This thread reminded me of that ;)

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#116708

Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> wrote:

> Odd one. I have a model A1234 Mac wired keyboard (the one with the 
> number pad). All of it works except a single key - 'x'. Instead of 
> typing an 'x', it types a '`' (backtick) character instead.
> 
> I find this really odd - can understand several keys being wrong as 
> maybe being a membrane or controller issue. But just one? It's 
> consistent across multiple machines as well.
> 
> Is there anything on the keyboard itself that could be causing multiple
> machine to recognise it this way? Would like to know before I go to the
> inevitable unscrew-the-keyboard-and-poke-about stage (invariably 
> leading to the "damn, needs throwing away" stage).

Unlikely, but the keyboard mapping file could be damaged.
Does it make the same error when connected to another Mac?
(or if you don't have one handy)
Have you tried what it does when you shift to another eyboard layout,
AZERTY for example? Does it make the corresponding error?

If so, reinstalling the system should cure it,

Jan

 

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#116710

On 27/03/2017 10:49, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> wrote:
>
>> Odd one. I have a model A1234 Mac wired keyboard (the one with the
>> number pad). All of it works except a single key - 'x'. Instead of
>> typing an 'x', it types a '`' (backtick) character instead.
>>
>> I find this really odd - can understand several keys being wrong as
>> maybe being a membrane or controller issue. But just one? It's
>> consistent across multiple machines as well.
>>
>> Is there anything on the keyboard itself that could be causing multiple
>> machine to recognise it this way? Would like to know before I go to the
>> inevitable unscrew-the-keyboard-and-poke-about stage (invariably
>> leading to the "damn, needs throwing away" stage).
>
> Unlikely, but the keyboard mapping file could be damaged.
> Does it make the same error when connected to another Mac?
> (or if you don't have one handy)

Rebooting into the recovery partition should avoid any corrupt mapping 
files too.

-- 
Chris

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#116715

On 2017-03-27 11:54:24 +0000, Chris Ridd <chrisridd@mac.com> said:

> On 27/03/2017 10:49, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> 
>> Unlikely, but the keyboard mapping file could be damaged.
>> Does it make the same error when connected to another Mac?
>> (or if you don't have one handy)
> 
> Rebooting into the recovery partition should avoid any corrupt mapping 
> files too.

It does behave this way on multiple Macs, yes. I have it connected to 
my 2011 iMac right now (which currently has a bluetooth keyboard, 
trackpad and then wired mouse and this wired keyboard attached to it. 
Overkills'r'us). It's showing the same issue.

Definitely looking like the keyboard itself but yep - booting into 
recovery is a good idea which I'll try later.


Cheers,
Ian

-- 
Check out Proto the album: <http://studioicm.com/proto/>

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