Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > sci.physics > #870861 > unrolled thread

Question on Gravity Waves

Back to article view | Back to sci.physics

Contents

  Question on Gravity Waves Douglas Eagleson <eaglesondouglas@gmail.com> - 2023-03-08 17:24 -0800
    Re: Question on Gravity Waves "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-03-08 17:45 -0800
      Re: Question on Gravity Waves Douglas Eagleson <eaglesondouglas@gmail.com> - 2023-03-08 19:36 -0800
      Re: Question on Gravity Waves The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2023-03-08 22:34 -0800
    Re: Question on Gravity Waves "edpr...@gmail.com" <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2023-03-09 08:58 -0800
      Re: Question on Gravity Waves Douglas Eagleson <eaglesondouglas@gmail.com> - 2023-03-09 10:19 -0800
        Re: Question on Gravity Waves "edpr...@gmail.com" <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2023-03-10 07:54 -0800
          Re: Question on Gravity Waves Douglas Eagleson <eaglesondouglas@gmail.com> - 2023-03-10 10:41 -0800
            Re: Question on Gravity Waves "edpr...@gmail.com" <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2023-03-11 08:14 -0800
              Re: Question on Gravity Waves Douglas Eagleson <eaglesondouglas@gmail.com> - 2023-03-11 11:04 -0800

#870861 — Question on Gravity Waves

If I place a swinging pendulum near a  Eötvös balance mass, I suppose there will be an oscillation seen in the visual scale of the balance. Can I term the system a  gravity wave device?

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#870862

On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 5:24:36 PM UTC-8, Douglas Eagleson wrote:
> If I place a swinging pendulum near a Eötvös balance mass, I suppose there will be an oscillation seen in the visual scale of the balance. Can I term the system a gravity wave device?

The oscillation is too small to measure in real time.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#870864

On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 9:45:07 AM UTC+8, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 5:24:36 PM UTC-8, Douglas Eagleson wrote: 
> > If I place a swinging pendulum near a Eötvös balance mass, I suppose there will be an oscillation seen in the visual scale of the balance. Can I term the system a gravity wave device?
> The oscillation is too small to measure in real time.
oh thanks

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#870869

mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 5:24:36 PM UTC-8, Douglas Eagleson wrote:
> > If I place a swinging pendulum near a Eötvös balance mass, I suppose there will be an oscillation seen in the visual scale of the balance. Can I term the system a gravity wave device?
> 
> The oscillation is too small to measure in real time.

Have you tried...'imaginary time'?


-- 
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
 to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
and challenge
 the unchallengeable.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#870886

On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 8:24:36 PM UTC-5, Douglas Eagleson wrote:
> If I place a swinging pendulum near a Eötvös balance mass, I suppose there will be
> an oscillation seen in the visual scale of the balance. Can I term the system a gravity wave device?

In a sense, Yes.
But the change in gravity due to the pendulum is over such a short distance that you
would really not see the difference between that and a Newtonian interpretation of the results.

Ed

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#870892

On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 12:58:42 AM UTC+8, edpr...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 8:24:36 PM UTC-5, Douglas Eagleson wrote: 
> > If I place a swinging pendulum near a Eötvös balance mass, I suppose there will be 
> > an oscillation seen in the visual scale of the balance. Can I term the system a gravity wave device?
> In a sense, Yes. 
> But the change in gravity due to the pendulum is over such a short distance that you 
> would really not see the difference between that and a Newtonian interpretation of the results. 
> 
> Ed
My knowledge on gravity waves is small.  But if it takes something the size of LIGO to detect,
the system is maybe useless.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#870934

On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 1:19:37 PM UTC-5, Douglas Eagleson wrote:
> On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 12:58:42 AM UTC+8, edpr...@gmail.com wrote: 
> > On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 8:24:36 PM UTC-5, Douglas Eagleson wrote: 
> > > If I place a swinging pendulum near a Eötvös balance mass, I suppose there will be 
> > > an oscillation seen in the visual scale of the balance. Can I term the system a gravity wave device? 
> > In a sense, Yes. 
> > But the change in gravity due to the pendulum is over such a short distance that you 
> > would really not see the difference between that and a Newtonian interpretation of the results. 
> > 
> > Ed
> My knowledge on gravity waves is small. But if it takes something the size of LIGO to detect, 
> the system is maybe useless.

Well the fact that LIGO does work demonstrates that is is useful.

Many things in fundamental physics are difficult to measure.
Nature is not obligated to be easy to understand.
To quote Murphy: "Nothing is as easy as it looks."

For example, even the simple system you propose may need refinement.
    How will you account for the response time of the balance?  this affects
the frequency of gravity waves detected
    How do you isolate the balance from ground vibrations?
    How will you account for vibrations due to air movement?
These are noise sources

These are just a few off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more.

Enjoy,
  Ed

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#870941

On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 11:54:28 PM UTC+8, edpr...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 1:19:37 PM UTC-5, Douglas Eagleson wrote: 
> > On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 12:58:42 AM UTC+8, edpr...@gmail.com wrote: 
> > > On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 8:24:36 PM UTC-5, Douglas Eagleson wrote: 
> > > > If I place a swinging pendulum near a Eötvös balance mass, I suppose there will be 
> > > > an oscillation seen in the visual scale of the balance. Can I term the system a gravity wave device? 
> > > In a sense, Yes. 
> > > But the change in gravity due to the pendulum is over such a short distance that you 
> > > would really not see the difference between that and a Newtonian interpretation of the results. 
> > > 
> > > Ed 
> > My knowledge on gravity waves is small. But if it takes something the size of LIGO to detect, 
> > the system is maybe useless.
> Well the fact that LIGO does work demonstrates that is is useful. 
> 
> Many things in fundamental physics are difficult to measure. 
> Nature is not obligated to be easy to understand. 
> To quote Murphy: "Nothing is as easy as it looks." 
> 
> For example, even the simple system you propose may need refinement. 
> How will you account for the response time of the balance? this affects 
> the frequency of gravity waves detected 
> How do you isolate the balance from ground vibrations? 
> How will you account for vibrations due to air movement? 
> These are noise sources 
> 
> These are just a few off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more. 
> 
> Enjoy, 
> Ed
One of my intensions is to find out if my understanding is
simply naïve.  Are masses that oscillate doing something like
deforming the space-time fabric.  So does a valid experiment
have to somehow observe this fabric.  I know this is rather vague,
but is it a very deep question.  Do I need something like an
experiment that includes the capacity to measure the speed
of gravity.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#871009

On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 1:41:39 PM UTC-5, Douglas Eagleson wrote:
> On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 11:54:28 PM UTC+8, edpr...@gmail.com wrote: 
> > On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 1:19:37 PM UTC-5, Douglas Eagleson wrote: 
> > > On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 12:58:42 AM UTC+8, edpr...@gmail.com wrote: 
> > > > On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 8:24:36 PM UTC-5, Douglas Eagleson wrote: 
> > > > > If I place a swinging pendulum near a Eötvös balance mass, I suppose there will be 
> > > > > an oscillation seen in the visual scale of the balance. Can I term the system a gravity wave device? 
> > > > In a sense, Yes. 
> > > > But the change in gravity due to the pendulum is over such a short distance that you 
> > > > would really not see the difference between that and a Newtonian interpretation of the results. 
> > > > 
> > > > Ed 
> > > My knowledge on gravity waves is small. But if it takes something the size of LIGO to detect, 
> > > the system is maybe useless. 
> > Well the fact that LIGO does work demonstrates that is is useful. 
> > 
> > Many things in fundamental physics are difficult to measure. 
> > Nature is not obligated to be easy to understand. 
> > To quote Murphy: "Nothing is as easy as it looks." 
> > 
> > For example, even the simple system you propose may need refinement. 
> > How will you account for the response time of the balance? this affects 
> > the frequency of gravity waves detected 
> > How do you isolate the balance from ground vibrations? 
> > How will you account for vibrations due to air movement? 
> > These are noise sources 
> > 
> > These are just a few off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more. 
> > 
> > Enjoy, 
> > Ed
> One of my intensions is to find out if my understanding is 
> simply naïve. Are masses that oscillate doing something like 
> deforming the space-time fabric. So does a valid experiment 
> have to somehow observe this fabric. I know this is rather vague, 
> but is it a very deep question. Do I need something like an 
> experiment that includes the capacity to measure the speed 
> of gravity.

Can you do the relativistic gravity calculations?

"When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers,
 you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot
 express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind:
 it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely, in your thoughts,
 advanced to the stage of science, whatever the matter may be."
Lord Kelvin
Popular Lectures and Addresses vol. 1 (1889) ‘Electrical Units of Measurement’, delivered 3 May 1883

Keep working at it.
Ed

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#871025

On Sunday, March 12, 2023 at 12:14:14 AM UTC+8, edpr...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 1:41:39 PM UTC-5, Douglas Eagleson wrote: 
> > On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 11:54:28 PM UTC+8, edpr...@gmail.com wrote: 
> > > On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 1:19:37 PM UTC-5, Douglas Eagleson wrote: 
> > > > On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 12:58:42 AM UTC+8, edpr...@gmail.com wrote: 
> > > > > On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 8:24:36 PM UTC-5, Douglas Eagleson wrote: 
> > > > > > If I place a swinging pendulum near a Eötvös balance mass, I suppose there will be 
> > > > > > an oscillation seen in the visual scale of the balance. Can I term the system a gravity wave device? 
> > > > > In a sense, Yes. 
> > > > > But the change in gravity due to the pendulum is over such a short distance that you 
> > > > > would really not see the difference between that and a Newtonian interpretation of the results. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Ed 
> > > > My knowledge on gravity waves is small. But if it takes something the size of LIGO to detect, 
> > > > the system is maybe useless. 
> > > Well the fact that LIGO does work demonstrates that is is useful. 
> > > 
> > > Many things in fundamental physics are difficult to measure. 
> > > Nature is not obligated to be easy to understand. 
> > > To quote Murphy: "Nothing is as easy as it looks." 
> > > 
> > > For example, even the simple system you propose may need refinement. 
> > > How will you account for the response time of the balance? this affects 
> > > the frequency of gravity waves detected 
> > > How do you isolate the balance from ground vibrations? 
> > > How will you account for vibrations due to air movement? 
> > > These are noise sources 
> > > 
> > > These are just a few off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more. 
> > > 
> > > Enjoy, 
> > > Ed 
> > One of my intensions is to find out if my understanding is 
> > simply naïve. Are masses that oscillate doing something like 
> > deforming the space-time fabric. So does a valid experiment 
> > have to somehow observe this fabric. I know this is rather vague, 
> > but is it a very deep question. Do I need something like an 
> > experiment that includes the capacity to measure the speed 
> > of gravity.
> Can you do the relativistic gravity calculations? 
> 
> "When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, 
> you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot 
> express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind: 
> it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely, in your thoughts, 
> advanced to the stage of science, whatever the matter may be." 
> Lord Kelvin 
> Popular Lectures and Addresses vol. 1 (1889) ‘Electrical Units of Measurement’, delivered 3 May 1883 
> 
> Keep working at it. 
> Ed
You are right, numbers matter.  Unfortunately gravity waves, in theory, are
hard numbers only truly understood by maybe 100 physicists on
the planet.  In philosophy though, identification of a relation of nature
is considered good work.

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Back to top | Article view | sci.physics

csiph-web