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Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs...

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On a sunny day (Fri, 13 Sep 2024 20:40:55 +0200) it happened Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <vc20pt$10e68$1@dont-email.me>:

>On 9/13/24 13:38, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Fri, 13 Sep 2024 20:55:09 +1000) it happened Chris Jones
>> <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> wrote in <jSUEO.167440$QvZa.5887@fx08.ams4>:
>> 
>>> On 13/09/2024 2:49 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 12 Sep 2024 14:43:02 +0200) it happened Jeroen Belleman
>>>> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <vbuneq$8hap$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>>
>>>>> On 9/12/24 12:34, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/09/2024 10:45, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thu, 12 Sep 2024 05:00:38 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Artificial muscles propel a robotic leg to walk and jump:
>>>>>>>>     https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/09/240909113111.htm
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> quote:
>>>>>>>>     "
>>>>>>>>     The actuators are oil-filled plastic bags, similar to those used to
>>>>>>>>     make ice cubes.
>>>>>>>>     About half of each bag is coated on either side with a black electrode
>>>>>>>>     made of a conductive material.
>>>>>>>>     Buchner explains that "as soon as we apply a voltage to the
>>>>>>>> electrodes,
>>>>>>>>     they are attracted to each other due to static electricity.
>>>>>>>>     ...
>>>>>>>>     "
>>>>>>>> And press the fluid out....
>>>>>>>> So electrostatic actuators!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How does that not violate thermodynamics? You seem to be getting useful
>>>>>>> power from zero energy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How do little pieces of paper defy gravity when you put a charged comb
>>>>>> near them? Isn't the energy supplied by rubbing the comb against some
>>>>>> material to give it the charge to attract the paper? Where does the
>>>>>> voltage come from which is applied to the bag electrodes?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Didn't we discuss something like this not too long ago, or was it in
>>>>>> another NG?
>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatic_motor>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That was right here in s.e.d in July. And no, thermodynamics, or
>>>>> rather conservation of energy is not violated. It never is.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think that they can get useful amounts of work out of these
>>>>> things. The Science Daily article is useless, as always, and I did
>>>>> not bother to read the paper.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeroen Belleman
>>>>
>>>> At least they made something that works,
>>>> unlike the trillions spend at CERN that never do anything for anybody.
>>>> I would cancel all funding to CERN if they did not come up with something revolutionary and practical useful in a year.
>>>> He who does not want to see is practically blind.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Kicad and web browsers are quite useful, even if the physics is of no
>>> interest to you.
>> 
>> html was invented long ago by somebody from CERN
>>   https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Berners-Lee
>> quote in Dutch:
>>   " Timothy John (Tim) Berners-Lee (Londen, 8 juni 1955) is samen met zijn toenmalig manager, de Belg Robert Cailliau,
>>   de bedenker en grondlegger van de technologie en het protocol, die het world wide web of wereldwijde web, afgekort tot www,
>>   mogelijk maakten. Hieraan werkte hij toen hij consultant-software-engineer in dienst bij het CERN in Zwitserland was,
>>   van juni tot en met december 1990"
>> 
>> Timothy John (Tim) Berners-Lee  only worked at CERN from june to december 1990
>> So basicaly nothing to do with CERN or elementary particles etc.
>> There is old html server code I had somewhere from a CERN website that I once used.
>> Modern browsers are hopelessly bloated with other stuff, mostly for enabling more advertizing :-)
>> 
>> Without CERN he likely would have invented it anyways, maybe earlier :-)
>> 
>
>I think Berners-Lee spent more time at CERN than that. He was a software
>engineer involved in data acquisition software for physics experiments.
>We were in the same department. I've been in meetings with him present.
>This was in the 1980s. We were young. The subject at the time was
>FastBus software libraries. FastBus was used in the LEP experiments,
>but it was expensive and cumbersome and never lived up to expectations.
>It died with the end of LEP.
Here is the English wikipedia site, more info, says the same thing about hiistime at CERN though
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Berners-Lee
You can correct stuff on wikipedia if you want.


>The World Wide Web was just one of his pet projects that grew out of
>proportion. Its original aim was to make documentation more easily
>accessible. At the time, if you weren't in meetings, on distribution
>lists, or if you didn't know the right people, it was very hard to find
>information.
>
>CERN was fertile ground for such a development. The infrastructure was
>there. There were computers everywhere. There were several kinds of
>networks to interconnect them. There was a lot of documentation, but
>it was hard to find and hard to maintain. The web addressed all that.
>Personally, I think it's a shame it mimicked a commonly used text
>formatting software of that era: SGML. Oh well.
>
>Of course, it helps that CERN management decided to release the web
>software into the public domain. I invite you to imagine what it would
>have been like if Micro$soft, IBM or Apple had come up with it. You
>wouldn't have liked it nearly as much, I'm sure, if you could even
>afford it. In fact, Apple had something like it at the time, proprietary
>of course. It didn't survive, because.

I dunno, I had windows 3.1 with trumpet winsock for the web...
Those were the days Billy The Gates stated 'internet was nothing much'

Before the internet I was online via viditel here:
 https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viditel
I used it,
1200 Bd rx 75 Bd tx via the phone line.
There were several 'goups', I followed the CP/M user group for example.

The French had Minitel:
 https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minitel

So not so much new in html... :-)

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Thread

Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-12 05:00 +0000
  Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> - 2024-09-12 09:45 +0000
    Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-12 10:27 +0000
    Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-12 11:34 +0100
      Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2024-09-12 14:43 +0200
        Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-13 04:49 +0000
          Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2024-09-13 12:14 +0200
            Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-13 11:57 +0000
              Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2024-09-13 21:07 +0200
          Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> - 2024-09-13 20:55 +1000
            Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-13 11:38 +0000
              Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2024-09-13 20:40 +0200
                Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-14 05:55 +0000
                Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> - 2024-09-14 13:17 +0000
                Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2024-09-14 18:46 +0100
                Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> - 2024-09-14 19:20 +0000
                Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... john larkin <JL@gct.com> - 2024-09-14 19:49 -0700
                Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-15 08:13 +0100
                Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> - 2024-09-15 09:58 +0000
                Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2024-09-15 11:21 +0100
                Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-15 11:00 +0000
                Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-15 11:38 +0100
                Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... Nick Hayward <nhayward8990@protonmail.com> - 2024-09-15 17:12 +0000
                Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-15 19:10 +0100
                Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... john larkin <JL@gct.com> - 2024-09-15 12:21 -0700
                Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2024-09-16 18:03 +1000
                Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... john larkin <JL@gct.com> - 2024-09-15 12:11 -0700
                Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2024-09-16 17:54 +1000
                Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2024-09-14 19:50 +0200
                Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-15 05:51 +0000
                Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... john larkin <JL@gct.com> - 2024-09-14 11:21 -0700
                Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2024-09-14 21:49 +0200
                Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2024-09-15 18:41 -0400
    Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> - 2024-09-18 05:33 +0000
  Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... john larkin <jl@650pot.com> - 2024-09-13 12:56 -0700
    Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs... Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-14 05:56 +0000

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