Re: Excel and accountants, good post on LinkedIn

Newsgroups	sci.electronics.design
Subject	Re: Excel and accountants, good post on LinkedIn
References	<5e0a38da-0e01-3cfa-3eec-cf3b29a5bb41@insomnia247.nl> <10lm2po$iqv$2@gal.iecc.com> <10lmcsf$hj6j$1@paganini.bofh.team> <10lmdtj$3cdnh$2@dont-email.me>
From	albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl
Message-ID	<nnd$1ed564c3$5dac5be2@17a4bce84ea0faec> (permalink)
Organization	KPN B.V.
Date	2026-02-01 21:58 +0100

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In article <10lmdtj$3cdnh$2@dont-email.me>,
Don Y  <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>> Oh dear, another example of ineptness triumphing over technical
>> goodness.
>
>There is a mistaken emphasis on usability and deferred error
>checking -- to make "coding" less difficult for the inept.
>
>Even in languages that have scoping rules that allow you to
>be more pedantic in defining identifiers, people choose to
>ignore them as an expedient.
>
>"The larger the dictionary, the FEWER the number of misspellings
>the spell-checker will find!"
>
>Similarly, laziness in deploying invariants lets errors in
>*processing* creep into data and persist -- often beyond
>the point where they COULD have been noticed!
>
>("This value can't exist here!  But, once you get PAST this
>point, the code will treat it as valid data...")
>
>The worst misuse (IM) of Excel is in place of a database.
>Yet, people seem terrified to NOT be able to see their data
>at a glance (really?  can you SPOT an error that would merit
>its presentation, thusly?)
>
>[I have encountered datasets maintained in excel (and other spreadsheets)
>that were horrendously large and impossible to manage.  Yet, offering
>to restructure the data in a database brings terror to the users...]

I have worked for the Rotterdam Harbour. There was a guy there that
had a huge spreadsheet, keeping track of *all* naval vessels
whereabouts.

I worked with a sql database that contains all loading and unloading
used to reconstructed the path of vessels around the harbour.
There was a great surprise, vessels unloaded in the middle of a
an agrarian area. Later I discover that was a placeholder of
docking stations that had disappeared.

>
>> I repeatedly complain to an R user which is an Excel user via
>> quotations like so: "languages like PHP and Mathematica are still
>> heedless to variable misspellings; [. . .] reversing bad design
>> decisions, is often impossible once there is a community of users. The
>> shortcomings of Perl, PHP, CSS, JavaScript, etc, are going to persist
>> [. . .] JavaScript, Perl, PHP, Excel [. . .] having little type
>> safety" says
>> Harold Thimbleby, "Heedless programming: ignoring detectable error is
>> a widespread hazard", "Software: Practice and Experience"
>

There is a widespread habit of "casing away" warnings. That is in the same
category. Most programs can avoid those. The proper way is to log warnings
with an explanation of why they are not indicative of a mistake.


Groetjes Albert
-- 
The Chinese government is satisfied with its military superiority over USA.
The next 5 year plan has as primary goal to advance life expectancy
over 80 years, like Western Europe.

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Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-29 14:26 +0000
  Re: good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-29 09:04 -0800
    Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-29 17:57 +0000
      Re: good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-29 10:59 -0800
        Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-30 00:48 +0000
          Re: good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-29 17:01 -0800
            Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-30 01:28 +0000
            Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-30 15:14 +1100
              Re: good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-30 11:52 -0800
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-31 16:05 +1100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-31 12:34 +0000
                Re: good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-31 07:29 -0800
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-01 20:59 +1100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-01 03:06 -0800
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-02 00:17 +1100
                Re: Excel and accountants, good post on LinkedIn John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-01-31 23:21 +0000
                Re: Excel and accountants, good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-31 16:22 -0800
                Re: Excel and accountants, good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-02-01 02:13 +0000
                Re: Excel and accountants, good post on LinkedIn Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-01-31 19:31 -0700
                Re: Excel and accountants, good post on LinkedIn albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-01 21:58 +0100
                Re: Excel and accountants, good post on LinkedIn Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-02-01 14:36 -0700
              Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-31 03:56 +0000
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-31 15:23 +1100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-31 14:36 +0000
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-01 21:31 +1100
        Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-30 14:59 +1100
          Re: good post on LinkedIn liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-01-30 10:15 +0000
            Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-31 00:06 +1100
              Re: good post on LinkedIn liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-01-30 13:43 +0000
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-31 02:18 +1100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-30 08:04 -0800
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-31 03:51 +1100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-30 09:46 -0800
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-30 20:00 +0000
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-01-30 22:49 +0100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-30 22:52 +0000
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-31 16:02 +1100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-31 13:33 +0000
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-01 01:31 +1100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-31 19:16 +0000
                Re: history of Fortran, good post on LinkedIn John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-01-31 23:10 +0000
                Sorry re history of Fortran, good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-31 23:25 +0000
                Re: Sorry re history of Fortran, good post on LinkedIn John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-02-01 02:43 +0000
                Re: Sorry re history of Fortran, good post on LinkedIn OrangeFish <OrangeFish@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-01 18:00 -0500
                Re: history of Fortran, good post on LinkedIn albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-01 22:11 +0100
                Re: history of Fortran, good post on LinkedIn Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-02-01 14:42 -0700
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-01 21:36 +1100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-30 15:53 -0800
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-31 16:14 +1100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-01-31 11:21 +0100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-31 07:34 -0800
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-01-31 21:42 +0100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-31 13:36 -0800
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-01 21:57 +1100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-01 03:10 -0800
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-02 00:37 +1100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-01 07:36 -0800
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-03 16:27 +1100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-01 22:21 +0100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-01-31 09:00 +0000
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-31 15:45 +1100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-31 14:26 +0000
                Re: good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-30 13:53 -0800
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-31 16:25 +1100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-31 07:41 -0800
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2026-01-31 17:33 +0100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-31 10:07 -0800
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-01-31 11:26 -0700
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-01 22:04 +1100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-01 07:38 -0800
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-03 16:37 +1100
              Re: good post on LinkedIn Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2026-01-30 15:06 +0100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-30 11:55 -0800
    Re: good post on LinkedIn wmartin <wwm@wwmartin.net> - 2026-01-30 11:27 -0800
      Re: good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-30 18:54 -0800
      Re: good post on LinkedIn Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-01-30 23:26 -0700
        Re: good post on LinkedIn liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-01-31 09:22 +0000
          Re: good post on LinkedIn Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-01-31 02:50 -0700
  Re: good post on LinkedIn Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-01-30 04:36 -0700
    Re: good post on LinkedIn legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-01-30 09:24 -0500
      Re: good post on LinkedIn Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-01-30 09:56 -0700
        Re: good post on LinkedIn Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-01-30 10:05 -0700
        Re: good post on LinkedIn legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-01-30 14:22 -0500
          Re: good post on LinkedIn Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-01-30 19:09 -0700
            Re: good post on LinkedIn legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-01-30 22:16 -0500
              Re: good post on LinkedIn Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-01-30 22:27 -0700
          Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-31 03:40 +0000
            Re: good post on LinkedIn Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-01-30 22:46 -0700
              Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-31 15:20 +0000
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-01-31 08:44 -0700
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-31 17:13 +0000
            Re: good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-31 07:55 -0800
            Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-02-16 13:52 +0000
    Re: good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-30 08:15 -0800

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