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Re: ANY(ONE can code

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On Mon, 18 Aug 2025 07:10:24 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 18 Aug 2025 21:08:56 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>wrote:
>
>>On 18/08/2025 3:23 am, john larkin wrote:
>>> On Mon, 18 Aug 2025 02:47:24 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 18/08/2025 1:31 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 14:35:04 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 17/08/2025 6:40 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 02:17:33 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 13/08/2025 12:37 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 12 Aug 2025 16:19:25 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 12/08/2025 9:19 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 12 Aug 2025 03:32:16 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/08/2025 1:50 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 11 Aug 2025 07:27:37 -0700, Don Y
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/11/2025 5:12 AM, BillGill wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/10/2025 9:27 AM, Don Y wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We design hardware that way. We seldom know or care about the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> internals of components. We design from data sheets or experiments and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulate using ideal components and encrypted behavioral models.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Since the inductors in your Spice simulations rarely have the data sheet
>>>>>>>>>>>> parallel capacitance plugged into the Spice model of your inductor, you
>>>>>>>>>>>> clearly don't care as much as you should about the internals of at least
>>>>>>>>>>>> some of your components.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I care when it matters. Inductor SRF rarely does.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you only design very slow stuff, that may be true.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 20 GHz wideband e/o modulators with picosecond resolution timing
>>>>>>>>> generators is about our limit. We're getting lazy, I guess.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Scarcely a circuit which would use use much in the way of wound
>>>>>>>> inductors - they might show up in the power supplies, but at 20GHz
>>>>>>>> everything starts looking like a transmission line where the parallel
>>>>>>>> capacitance is an integral part of the circuit. That was certainly true
>>>>>>>> for the 1 GHz stuff that I did forty years ago.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Distributed amplifier bias networks tend to use inductors. Some people
>>>>>>> like those dreadful conical things, but there are better ways.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lots of people make conicals now that the Piconics patents have timed
>>>>>>> out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am aware that you do "design" fast stuff, though design doesn't seem
>>>>>>>> to be quite the right word for your approach.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I accept that we have different approaches to electronic design. My
>>>>>>> approach is to actually build stuff that works and sells.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So was mine, back when I could find people to hire me. The 1GHz stuff
>>>>>> ended  up in a product Cambridge Instruments sold. I even got a patent
>>>>>> out of it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "U.K. patent 2139411 "Moving Plate" (also US patent 4614872) on an
>>>>>> improved blanking system for charged particle beams, easily adjusted to
>>>>>> match a wide range of particle velocities; assigned to Cambridge
>>>>>> Instruments in 1983."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The boss wanted our voltage contrast electron microscope to be also
>>>>>> capable of EBIC (electron beam-induced current), so the beam-blanking
>>>>>> system had to cope with beam voltages from 15kV to 300V - blanking
>>>>>> plates long enough (18mm) to bend a 15kV had more than 0.5nsec transit
>>>>>> time for a 300V beam. If you could set the electrodes parallel to the
>>>>>> beam for the 15KV beam, and rotate them until they were at right angle
>>>>>> to beam for beam voltages less than about 800V you could shorten up the
>>>>>> region of interaction enough to stay out of trouble.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We did push the envelope a bit further than you seem to.
>>>>>
>>>>> We did the picosecond master timing system and multi-GHz beam
>>>>> modulators for the world's biggest laser. That was fun. The Livermore
>>>>> people are wonderful to work with. We always seemed to work with a
>>>>> genius female physicist who did the heavy thinking.
>>>>
>>>> Of course your scheme was taken from the Hewlett-Packard Journal, and
>>>> made a lot more sense back when it was invented.
>>> 
>>> HP's vernier-locked digital delay generators and picosecond time
>>> interval counters were big and clumsy, not worth copying. I'm not
>>> aware that HP did any eo modulators.
>>> 
>>> Got references? Thought not.
>>
>>It was you who made the claim, here, years ago.
>>
>>I presume "big and clumsy and not worth copying" means that you tried 
>>and failed.
>
>No. The 5370 time interval counter and their time synthesizer box used
>a triggered delay-line oscillator and a frequency heterodyne phase
>locker. That was complex and had huge insertion delays and lots of
>jitter.
>
>Their (Keysights's)  latest time interval counter has lots of jitter
>too.
>
>This summarizes known (to me) DDG architectures:
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_delay_generator#Design
>
>I wrote that part.

Very interesting.  How did Wavecrest's stuff do this?

Joe

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ANY(ONE can code Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-08-10 07:27 -0700
  Re: ANY(ONE can code Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-08-11 02:09 +1000
  Re: ANY(ONE can code BillGill <tonisdad215@gmail.com> - 2025-08-11 07:12 -0500
    Re: ANY(ONE can code john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-08-11 07:22 -0700
    Re: ANY(ONE can code Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-08-11 07:27 -0700
      Re: ANYONE can code Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-08-11 07:46 -0700
      Re: ANY(ONE can code john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-08-11 08:50 -0700
        Re: ANY(ONE can code Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-08-12 03:32 +1000
          Re: ANY(ONE can code john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-08-11 16:19 -0700
            Re: ANY(ONE can code Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-08-12 16:19 +1000
              Re: ANY(ONE can code john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-08-12 07:37 -0700
                Re: ANY(ONE can code Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-08-13 15:28 +1000
                Re: ANY(ONE can code Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-08-17 02:17 +1000
                Re: ANY(ONE can code john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-08-16 13:40 -0700
                Re: ANY(ONE can code Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-08-17 14:35 +1000
                Re: ANY(ONE can code john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-08-17 08:31 -0700
                Re: ANY(ONE can code Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-08-18 02:47 +1000
                Re: ANY(ONE can code john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-08-17 10:23 -0700
                Re: ANY(ONE can code Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-08-18 21:08 +1000
                Re: ANY(ONE can code john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-08-18 07:10 -0700
                Re: ANY(ONE can code Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-08-18 10:57 -0400
                Re: ANY(ONE can code john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-08-18 08:44 -0700
                Re: ANY(ONE can code Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2025-08-22 09:54 +0200
                Re: ANY(ONE can code john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-08-22 07:39 -0700
                Re: ANY(ONE can code Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2025-08-22 17:21 +0200
                Re: ANY(ONE can code john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-08-22 08:47 -0700
                Re: ANY(ONE can code Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-08-19 17:12 +1000
                Re: ANY(ONE can code john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-08-19 04:09 -0700
                Re: ANY(ONE can code Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-08-20 00:53 +1000
                Re: ANY(ONE can code Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2025-08-22 10:45 +0200
                Re: ANY(ONE can code Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-08-22 02:14 -0700
                Re: ANY(ONE can code Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2025-08-22 11:41 +0000
                Re: ANY(ONE can code Buzz McCool <buzz_mccool@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-22 09:44 -0700
                Re: ANY(ONE can code Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2025-08-22 09:37 +0200
    Re: ANY(ONE can code Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-08-11 12:19 -0700
      Re: ANY(ONE can code john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-08-18 08:47 -0700
        Re: ANY(ONE can code Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-08-19 17:19 +1000
          Re: ANY(ONE can code bitrex <user@example.net> - 2025-08-22 20:52 -0400
        Re: ANY(ONE can code Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2025-08-22 10:57 +0200
          Re: ANY(ONE can code Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-08-22 02:18 -0700
            Re: ANY(ONE can code Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2025-08-22 11:39 +0200
              Re: ANY(ONE can code Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-08-22 03:09 -0700
                Re: ANY(ONE can code Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-08-22 11:51 -0700
            Re: ANY(ONE can code john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-08-22 07:54 -0700
              Re: ANY(ONE can code Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-08-23 02:11 +1000

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