Re: CoB LED filament analysis

From	"Don" <g@crcomp.net>
Newsgroups	sci.electronics.design
Subject	Re: CoB LED filament analysis
Date	2026-04-24 13:37 +0000
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<20260424a@crcomp.net> (permalink)
References	(1 earlier) <20260421a@crcomp.net> <3c6fuk16nn9tfhj24q3ulue347ab93jvh8@4ax.com> <on6fukd6chfua8nm2puqkdc6llb2jbatub@4ax.com> <20260421b@crcomp.net> <jkjfuk5hchs2eueqvbmlco2kioggg2lj7a@4ax.com>

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john larkin wrote:
> Don wrote:
>>john larkin wrote:
>>> john larkin wrote:
>>>> Don wrote:
>>>>>Don wrote:
>>>>>> Recent thread topic transitioned to a tentative opinion on a work-in-
>>>>>> progress webpage:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://crcomp.net/ledfilament/index.php>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Radiography imparts interesting insight. Second opinions welcome!
>>>>>>     The current waveform flopped. Any advice on how to use a Fluke
>>>>>> 80i-1000s connected to a Tek 2465B to display the 120 VAC current
>>>>>> wave is appreciated in advance. Also, what does "P2 < P1" signify on
>>>>>> the current probe?
>>>>>
>>>>>Alright you guys, a couple of current curve images are now available on
>>>>>the webpage. For the present case, in regards to the probe's "P2 < P1"
>>>>>orientation decal, P1 designates Line while P2 indicates Neutral.
>>>>>    The probe provides a sharper, cleaner curve compared to the
>>>>>resistor. Both curves illustrate how the silicon filament primarily
>>>>>presents itself as a capacitive load.
>>>>>    The filament's high voltage combined with its low amperage degrades
>>>>>resistor curve quality. It took a 10 M ohm resistive current sensor for
>>>>>the half-wave rectification effect to become visible.
>>>>>    The probe curve's mostly blue trace shows the peak-to-peak Line
>>>>>voltage. It's used to properly trigger the scope. (Perhaps the scope's
>>>>>line trigger accomplishes the same result with less effort?) The probe
>>>>>curve's mostly green trace shows the current, with peaks and valleys
>>>>>created by half-wave rectification at each end of the filament.
>>>>>    The current curve is set to 2mV per division. Does anyone know how
>>>>>to transpose it to mA?
>>>>
>>>>It can't be capacitive. It has no mechanism to store energy.
>>>>
>>>>Unless one of the thingies on the end is a cap. A DC curve would
>>>>resolve that.
>>>>
>>>>A thermal image would be interesting too.
>>>>
>>> No, it lights up with DC, so there's no series cap.
>>
>>ELI the ICE man. The trace of the current curve clearly leads the
>>voltage trace, so the filament must present a capacitive load.
>>    A silicon device that presents a capactive load is different from
>>a series capacitor:
>>
>>    COB LEDs present capacitive loads through parasitic capacitances
>>    inherent to their densely packed chip-on-board structure. These
>>    capacitances arise between closely spaced LED dies, bonding
>>    wires, and the substrate, affecting driver circuits during
>>    switching.
>
> Since the current probe waveform is so different from the one that
> uses a resistor, one must be wrong, or likely both.
>
> Stray capacitances are at least six orders of magnitude from causing
> the phase shift that you are seeing.

You're wrong, no doubt about it. Stray capacitance caused my problem.
And your sweeping generality at this juncture led me to question my
correct quantitative instincts.

"ELI the ICE man. The trace of the current curve clearly leads the 
voltage trace" leads to the correct solution.

Hint: stray capacitance originates from more than one source.

Danke,

--
73, Don, WD7Q                                             veritas    _|_
                                                          liberabit   |
https://www.qsl.net/wd7q                                  vos         |

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CoB LED filament analysis "Don" <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-04-12 05:34 +0000
  Re: CoB LED filament analysis JM <sunaecoNoChoppedPork@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 10:45 +0100
    Re: CoB LED filament analysis JM <sunaecoNoChoppedPork@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 10:48 +0100
      Re: CoB LED filament analysis JM <sunaecoNoChoppedPork@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 10:50 +0100
        Re: CoB LED filament analysis JM <sunaecoNoChoppedPork@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 12:03 +0100
          Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-12 04:44 -0700
  Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-12 04:19 -0700
  Re: CoB LED filament analysis piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> - 2026-04-13 07:40 +0000
    Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-13 01:46 -0700
      Re: CoB LED filament analysis piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> - 2026-04-13 11:40 +0000
        Re: CoB LED filament analysis JM <sunaecoNoChoppedPork@gmail.com> - 2026-04-13 14:31 +0100
          Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-13 06:59 -0700
            Re: CoB LED filament analysis "Don" <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-04-14 12:25 +0000
              Re: CoB LED filament analysis JM <sunaecoNoChoppedPork@gmail.com> - 2026-04-14 14:04 +0100
              Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-14 08:21 -0700
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-15 02:48 +1000
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-14 11:14 -0700
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> - 2026-04-14 19:25 +0100
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis JM <sunaecoNoChoppedPork@gmail.com> - 2026-04-14 19:43 +0100
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> - 2026-04-14 20:19 +0000
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-14 12:54 -0700
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis JM <sunaecoNoChoppedPork@gmail.com> - 2026-04-14 19:42 +0100
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-14 12:57 -0700
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-14 13:02 -0700
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> - 2026-04-14 21:29 +0100
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-14 19:10 -0700
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis "Don" <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-04-15 11:36 +0000
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> - 2026-04-15 12:35 +0000
  Re: CoB LED filament analysis "Don" <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-04-21 14:39 +0000
    Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-21 08:41 -0700
      Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-21 08:54 -0700
        Re: CoB LED filament analysis "Don" <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-04-21 16:55 +0000
          Re: CoB LED filament analysis Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-22 03:54 +1000
            Re: CoB LED filament analysis "Don" <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-04-21 21:05 +0000
              Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-21 17:03 -0700
          Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-21 12:26 -0700
            Re: CoB LED filament analysis "Don" <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-04-22 01:44 +0000
              Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-21 19:16 -0700
            Re: CoB LED filament analysis "Don" <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-04-24 13:37 +0000
              Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-24 07:55 -0700
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-24 08:04 -0700
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis "Don" <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-04-24 16:43 +0000
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis "Don" <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-04-24 20:15 +0000
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-26 03:45 +1000
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-25 11:14 -0700
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis "Don" <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-04-25 22:56 +0000
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis ehsjr <ehsjr@verizon.net> - 2026-04-25 21:33 -0400
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis "Don" <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-04-26 02:18 +0000
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-25 20:08 -0700
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis "Don" <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-04-26 04:44 +0000
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis Arie de Muijnck <noreply@ademu.nl> - 2026-04-26 13:03 +0200
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis "Don" <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-04-26 11:35 +0000
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis "Don" <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-04-26 11:43 +0000
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis "Don" <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-04-26 16:44 +0000
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-26 10:17 -0700
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis Arie de Muijnck <noreply@ademu.nl> - 2026-04-26 19:58 +0200
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis "Don" <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-04-26 19:22 +0000
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-04-26 20:30 +0200
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis JM <sunaecoNoChoppedPork@gmail.com> - 2026-04-26 18:24 +0100
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis "Don" <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-04-26 17:52 +0000
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> - 2026-04-26 19:17 +0000
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-25 20:10 -0700
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-04-24 22:23 +0200
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-24 15:42 -0700
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-04-25 10:53 +0200
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-26 12:05 -0700
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> - 2026-04-26 19:20 +0000
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-27 12:49 -0700
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-27 17:04 +1000
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-04-27 10:59 +0200
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-27 08:11 -0700
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-28 01:51 +1000
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-04-27 21:40 +0200
    Re: CoB LED filament analysis JM <sunaecoNoChoppedPork@gmail.com> - 2026-04-22 16:36 +0100
      Re: CoB LED filament analysis "Don" <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-04-22 17:10 +0000
        Re: CoB LED filament analysis JM <sunaecoNoChoppedPork@gmail.com> - 2026-04-22 18:17 +0100
          Re: CoB LED filament analysis "Don" <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-04-22 17:31 +0000
            Re: CoB LED filament analysis "Don" <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-04-22 18:14 +0000
              Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-22 11:23 -0700
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis "Don" <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-04-22 18:43 +0000
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-04-22 23:50 +0200
          Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-22 11:24 -0700
            Re: CoB LED filament analysis Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-23 17:22 +1000
              Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-23 07:58 -0700
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis "Don" <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-04-23 17:15 +0000
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis "Don" <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-04-23 21:26 +0000
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis "Don" <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-04-24 02:53 +0000
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> - 2026-04-24 18:19 +0100
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-24 10:39 -0700
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> - 2026-04-24 21:39 +0100
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-24 15:19 -0700
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-25 15:23 +1000
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis "Don" <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-04-24 17:45 +0000
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-24 11:12 -0700
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-04-24 18:30 +0000
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-24 11:42 -0700
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-25 15:49 +1000
                Re: CoB LED filament analysis Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-25 15:47 +1000

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