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Groups > sci.electronics.components > #6157 > unrolled thread

Contactors/Relays

Started byDavid Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com>
First post2017-10-14 18:16 +0000
Last post2017-10-15 09:49 -0400
Articles 13 on this page of 33 — 8 participants

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  Contactors/Relays David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-10-14 18:16 +0000
    Re: Contactors/Relays legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2017-10-14 15:38 -0400
      Re: Contactors/Relays David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-10-18 22:32 +0000
        Re: Contactors/Relays legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2017-10-18 23:11 -0400
          Re: Contactors/Relays David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-10-19 06:11 +0000
            Re: Contactors/Relays legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2017-10-19 15:02 -0400
              Re: Contactors/Relays rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-10-19 18:48 -0400
                Re: Contactors/Relays legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2017-10-19 23:02 -0400
                  Re: Contactors/Relays rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-10-20 00:49 -0400
                    Re: Contactors/Relays legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2017-10-20 12:03 -0400
                      Re: Contactors/Relays rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-10-20 13:17 -0400
                        Re: Contactors/Relays legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2017-10-21 09:52 -0400
                        Re: Contactors/Relays David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-10-22 06:25 +0000
                      Re: Contactors/Relays David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-10-26 05:00 +0000
                        Re: Contactors/Relays legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2017-10-29 13:23 -0400
                          Re: Contactors/Relays Michael A Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-10-30 16:04 -0400
                          Re: Contactors/Relays David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-11-03 06:07 +0000
        Re: Contactors/Relays upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-10-19 13:00 +0300
          Re: Contactors/Relays David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-10-22 06:23 +0000
          Re: Contactors/Relays David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-10-26 05:04 +0000
    Re: Contactors/Relays legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2017-10-14 15:52 -0400
      Re: Contactors/Relays David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-10-19 06:03 +0000
    Re: Contactors/Relays legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2017-10-14 16:20 -0400
      Re: Contactors/Relays David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-10-19 06:04 +0000
        Re: Contactors/Relays rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-10-19 03:49 -0400
          Re: Contactors/Relays David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-10-22 06:18 +0000
            Re: Contactors/Relays rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-10-22 03:57 -0400
    Re: Contactors/Relays Hul Tytus <ht@panix.com> - 2017-10-14 21:20 +0000
      Re: Contactors/Relays David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-10-19 06:07 +0000
        Re: Contactors/Relays legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2017-10-19 23:11 -0400
    Re: Contactors/Relays John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-10-14 16:43 -0700
    Re: Contactors/Relays upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-10-15 10:20 +0300
    Re: Contactors/Relays Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-10-15 09:49 -0400

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#6159

Fromlegg <legg@nospam.magma.ca>
Date2017-10-14 15:52 -0400
Message-ID<6eq4ucdtln441kldascthk0eicnpge51ge@4ax.com>
In reply to#6157
On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 18:16:57 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8foz@panix.com> wrote:

>I have futilely been seeking 100A 3ph NC/Form B relays/contactors.
>It seems they are all stashed in the "unicorn eggs" box, sigh.
>
>So a second design approach involves dual coil relays. The
>flavor I seek has one larger coil to close the relay, and a
>second, much lower power holding coil to keep it closed.  Of
>course, I'm not finding them either. The ones I unearth are
>"close coil, open coil" flavor.
>
>Anyone seen such?
>
>

https://www.galco.com/shop/Open-Transfer-Switches

Add your own solenoid.

RL

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#6194

FromDavid Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com>
Date2017-10-19 06:03 +0000
Message-ID<os9f7e$4b4$1@reader2.panix.com>
In reply to#6159
legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> writes:

>>Anyone seen such?
>>
>>

>https://www.galco.com/shop/Open-Transfer-Switches

>Add your own solenoid.

Or pay someone to turn it for us....

-- 
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

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#6160

Fromlegg <legg@nospam.magma.ca>
Date2017-10-14 16:20 -0400
Message-ID<9bs4uctcdrta6uv47oh5rfplk6m0m8dcdh@4ax.com>
In reply to#6157
On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 18:16:57 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8foz@panix.com> wrote:

>I have futilely been seeking 100A 3ph NC/Form B relays/contactors.
>It seems they are all stashed in the "unicorn eggs" box, sigh.
>
>So a second design approach involves dual coil relays. The
>flavor I seek has one larger coil to close the relay, and a
>second, much lower power holding coil to keep it closed.  Of
>course, I'm not finding them either. The ones I unearth are
>"close coil, open coil" flavor.
>
>Anyone seen such?

http://gencontrol.co.uk/3-pole--9a-95a--nc1-type-.html

RL

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#6195

FromDavid Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com>
Date2017-10-19 06:04 +0000
Message-ID<os9f92$4b4$2@reader2.panix.com>
In reply to#6160
legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> writes:

>>Anyone seen such?

>http://gencontrol.co.uk/3-pole--9a-95a--nc1-type-.html

NO not NC main contacts.
-- 
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#6198

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2017-10-19 03:49 -0400
Message-ID<os9ldk$cti$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#6195
David Lesher wrote on 10/19/2017 2:04 AM:
> legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> writes:
>
>>> Anyone seen such?
>
>> http://gencontrol.co.uk/3-pole--9a-95a--nc1-type-.html
>
> NO not NC main contacts.

Now I'm confused.  Above you said if control power drops the relay contacts 
should close.  Here you say they should be NO.  Those two things are not 
compatible.

-- 

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

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#6229

FromDavid Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com>
Date2017-10-22 06:18 +0000
Message-ID<oshd7l$krp$2@reader2.panix.com>
In reply to#6198
rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:

>David Lesher wrote on 10/19/2017 2:04 AM:
>> legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> writes:
>>
>>>> Anyone seen such?
>>
>>> http://gencontrol.co.uk/3-pole--9a-95a--nc1-type-.html
>>
>> NO not NC main contacts.

>Now I'm confused.  Above you said if control power drops the relay contacts 
>should close.  Here you say they should be NO.  Those two things are not 
>compatible.

I meant your suggestion was NFG because it is NO; I need NC.
-- 
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#6232

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2017-10-22 03:57 -0400
Message-ID<oshj0t$s8$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#6229
David Lesher wrote on 10/22/2017 2:18 AM:
> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> David Lesher wrote on 10/19/2017 2:04 AM:
>>> legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> writes:
>>>
>>>>> Anyone seen such?
>>>
>>>> http://gencontrol.co.uk/3-pole--9a-95a--nc1-type-.html
>>>
>>> NO not NC main contacts.
>
>> Now I'm confused.  Above you said if control power drops the relay contacts
>> should close.  Here you say they should be NO.  Those two things are not
>> compatible.
>
> I meant your suggestion was NFG because it is NO; I need NC.

NFG?  Not Functioning on Ground?

It wasn't my suggestion.  I'm just having trouble following some of the 
conversation.

-- 

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

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#6161

FromHul Tytus <ht@panix.com>
Date2017-10-14 21:20 +0000
Message-ID<ortv2o$e2t$1@reader2.panix.com>
In reply to#6157
David - are the "close coil, open coil" relays the type that are opened by 
a pulse on one coil and closed by a pulse on the other?

Hul

In sci.electronics.design David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> wrote:
> I have futilely been seeking 100A 3ph NC/Form B relays/contactors.
> It seems they are all stashed in the "unicorn eggs" box, sigh.

> So a second design approach involves dual coil relays. The
> flavor I seek has one larger coil to close the relay, and a
> second, much lower power holding coil to keep it closed.  Of
> course, I'm not finding them either. The ones I unearth are
> "close coil, open coil" flavor.

> Anyone seen such?

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#6196

FromDavid Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com>
Date2017-10-19 06:07 +0000
Message-ID<os9fe8$4b4$4@reader2.panix.com>
In reply to#6161
Hul Tytus <ht@panix.com> writes:

>David - are the "close coil, open coil" relays the type that are opened by 
>a pulse on one coil and closed by a pulse on the other?

Yes....

-- 
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#6211

Fromlegg <legg@nospam.magma.ca>
Date2017-10-19 23:11 -0400
Message-ID<ospiuc1ailtgnb0fb30p60tld0ed3l2oqv@4ax.com>
In reply to#6196
On Thu, 19 Oct 2017 06:07:04 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8foz@panix.com> wrote:

>Hul Tytus <ht@panix.com> writes:
>
>>David - are the "close coil, open coil" relays the type that are opened by 
>>a pulse on one coil and closed by a pulse on the other?
>
>Yes....

That is the usual function of the physical component of an
electronically controlled transfer switch, partly due to the power
requirement of the movement.. The auxilliary signal contacts can
provide information on the operating state and may also be used
directly to energize or disable the appropriate coil.

RL

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#6162

FromJohn Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com>
Date2017-10-14 16:43 -0700
Message-ID<d485uc1vdddqu175elci641fubsifgba37@4ax.com>
In reply to#6157
On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 18:16:57 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8foz@panix.com> wrote:

>I have futilely been seeking 100A 3ph NC/Form B relays/contactors.
>It seems they are all stashed in the "unicorn eggs" box, sigh.
>
>So a second design approach involves dual coil relays. The
>flavor I seek has one larger coil to close the relay, and a
>second, much lower power holding coil to keep it closed. 

AC relays and contactors do that automatically. The seated inductance
is much higher than the open inductance, so the coil current drops
when the relay is fully closed.


-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

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#6163

Fromupsidedown@downunder.com
Date2017-10-15 10:20 +0300
Message-ID<iq26uc9nnnv27fdau98tpv66h875cir54k@4ax.com>
In reply to#6157
On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 18:16:57 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8foz@panix.com> wrote:

>I have futilely been seeking 100A 3ph NC/Form B relays/contactors.
>It seems they are all stashed in the "unicorn eggs" box, sigh.
>
>So a second design approach involves dual coil relays. The
>flavor I seek has one larger coil to close the relay, and a
>second, much lower power holding coil to keep it closed.  Of
>course, I'm not finding them either. The ones I unearth are
>"close coil, open coil" flavor.
>
>Anyone seen such?

Have you looked at companies making star/delta soft starter relays ?

You might find some relays with NC or switch over contacts.

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#6164

FromNeon John <no@never.com>
Date2017-10-15 09:49 -0400
Message-ID<r5p6uc9vqho19ig3vrqillmdapl259tgjr@4ax.com>
In reply to#6157
On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 18:16:57 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8foz@panix.com> wrote:

>I have futilely been seeking 100A 3ph NC/Form B relays/contactors.
>It seems they are all stashed in the "unicorn eggs" box, sigh.
>
>So a second design approach involves dual coil relays. The
>flavor I seek has one larger coil to close the relay, and a
>second, much lower power holding coil to keep it closed.  Of
>course, I'm not finding them either. The ones I unearth are
>"close coil, open coil" flavor.

With a DC coil, you can very easily make a peak/hold circuit.  Place a
power resistor in series with the coil, the value of which sets the
holding current.  Bridge that resistor with a fairly large value
capacitor.

The way it work is that when power is applied, the capacitor shunts
the resistor with zero impedance and supplies full voltage to the
coil.  As the capacitor charges, it becomes an open circuit and the
resistor controls the holding current.

The easiest way to select the capacitor is trial and error.

One thing to be aware of.  If there is vibration involved then you
must set the holding current high enough to keep the armature pulled
in despite the vibration.

John

John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com 
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

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