Groups | Search | Server Info | Login | Register

Groups > news.misc > #1321

Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

Show all headers | View raw

Jesse Rehmer <jesse.rehmer@blueworldhosting.com> writes:

> I was not directly involved, but worked on the Hosting help desk while
> this was ongoing, and know that we had the knowledge, capabilities, and
> man power to shut them all off within a few hours, but the higher ups
> let it drag out for a year or more before finally terminating
> contracts. It wasn't until it started to hit the news and they began
> receiving external pressure that they changed their tune, and very
> slowly terminated the bad actors. I realize this is not exactly the same
> scenario as CSAM, but I've witnessed decisions made at executive levels
> that chose profits over doing what is legal or right.

> Service Providers in the USA have immense protections, perhaps a lot
> more than they should, and we're going through another phase where that
> is being re-examined and up for litigation. Having been somewhat of a
> man-in-the-middle of all things related to Internet and Society - I'm
> not exactly sure where I stand on most of it either.

Yeah, this is all very fair and I agree with everything you say here.  The
smaller the provider, the more likely that the response to platlform abuse
will be... shall we say, random.  Some companies will take immediate
action; some companies will avoid doing anything for as long as possible.

Perhaps I am too optimistic, but I think in *most* cases the lack of
action is some combination of the fact that dealing with this stuff
requires spending money that doesn't make any profits and small companies
are more likely to feel like this is unfair and be very grudging about
doing it, plus the general human tendency to believe that any problem that
one doesn't want to deal with can't possibly be as bad as people claim it
is.  I think actual malice is rather rare, but cutting corners and not
spending money where it seems avoidable is very common.

There are also, of course, folks with strong libertarian principles,
probably more common among the sort of folks who often start small
businesses, and as long as the argument feels like it's on the level of
abstract principles, it's easy to decide that the libertarian principles
should win.  (Again, maybe I'm too optimistic, but I don't think this
tends to survive direct contact with the worst types of platform abuse.
But thankfully that sort of abuse is relatively rare, so the debate
sometimes stays abstract for a long time.)

The larger companies do not have the luxury of ignoring this sort of
problem and already have frequent contact with law enforcement due to the
simple fact that people live large amounts of their lives on cloud
providers these days, so legal investigations constantly go there.
They're more likely to have thought somewhat seriously about this and have
employees whose job it is to figure out what to do, although even in those
cases they tend to be underresourced compared to the size of the problem.

-- 
Russ Allbery (eagle@eyrie.org)             <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

          Please post questions rather than mailing me directly.
     <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/questions.html> explains why.

Back to news.misc | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar

Thread

Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Julien ÉLIE <iulius@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid> - 2023-07-08 09:42 +0200
  Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Michael Uplawski <michael.uplawski@uplawski.eu> - 2023-07-08 10:43 +0200
  Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2023-07-09 12:04 +0200
    Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> - 2023-07-09 14:40 +0000
      Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2023-07-09 16:43 +0200
        Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> - 2023-07-09 15:37 +0000
          Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2023-07-09 19:13 +0200
            Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> - 2023-07-09 17:50 +0000
  Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> - 2023-07-09 14:29 +0000
    Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2023-07-09 16:44 +0200
      Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> - 2023-07-15 15:01 +0000
        Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2023-07-15 16:37 +0000
          Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> - 2023-07-20 05:43 +0000
            Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Russ Allbery <eagle@eyrie.org> - 2023-07-19 23:27 -0700
              Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> - 2023-07-23 23:19 +0000
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Russ Allbery <eagle@eyrie.org> - 2023-07-23 17:09 -0700
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation mccomb@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb) - 2023-07-24 00:42 +0000
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Russ Allbery <eagle@eyrie.org> - 2023-07-23 18:09 -0700
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation mccomb@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb) - 2023-07-24 01:53 +0000
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2023-07-24 16:00 +0000
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation mccomb@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb) - 2023-07-24 16:38 +0000
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2023-07-24 15:58 +0000
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> - 2023-07-30 01:26 +0000
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation John <john@building-m.simplistic-anti-spam-measure.net> - 2023-07-30 03:27 +0000
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> - 2023-08-05 17:36 +0000
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2023-08-05 19:11 +0000
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Jesse Rehmer <jesse.rehmer@blueworldhosting.com> - 2023-08-05 20:00 +0000
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Syber Shock <admin@sybershock.com> - 2023-07-31 11:00 -0500
            Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-07-20 08:37 +0100
              Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Jesse Rehmer <jesse.rehmer@blueworldhosting.com> - 2023-07-20 13:24 +0000
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2023-07-20 17:23 +0200
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> - 2023-07-20 15:44 +0000
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Jesse Rehmer <jesse.rehmer@blueworldhosting.com> - 2023-07-20 18:41 +0000
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Russ Allbery <eagle@eyrie.org> - 2023-07-20 11:55 -0700
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Jesse Rehmer <jesse.rehmer@blueworldhosting.com> - 2023-07-20 19:04 +0000
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Russ Allbery <eagle@eyrie.org> - 2023-07-20 12:37 -0700
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> - 2023-07-20 20:06 +0000
                Re: movies, was Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2023-07-20 21:46 +0000
                Re: movies "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> - 2023-07-20 22:08 +0000
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Jesse Rehmer <jesse.rehmer@blueworldhosting.com> - 2023-07-20 20:09 +0000
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2023-07-20 21:47 +0000
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-07-21 08:42 +0100
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Jesse Rehmer <jesse.rehmer@blueworldhosting.com> - 2023-07-21 10:59 +0000
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-07-21 16:47 +0100
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2023-07-20 21:42 +0000
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2023-07-20 21:39 +0000
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Jesse Rehmer <jesse.rehmer@blueworldhosting.com> - 2023-07-21 01:33 +0000
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2023-07-21 02:19 +0000
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Russ Allbery <eagle@eyrie.org> - 2023-07-20 20:13 -0700
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Jesse Rehmer <jesse.rehmer@blueworldhosting.com> - 2023-07-21 03:39 +0000
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Julien ÉLIE <iulius@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid> - 2023-07-30 13:53 +0200
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2023-07-30 12:40 +0000
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-07-21 16:54 +0100
        Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Russ Allbery <eagle@eyrie.org> - 2023-07-15 09:37 -0700
          Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> - 2023-07-20 04:54 +0000
            Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Russ Allbery <eagle@eyrie.org> - 2023-07-19 23:21 -0700
              Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Jesse Rehmer <jesse.rehmer@blueworldhosting.com> - 2023-07-20 13:22 +0000
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Russ Allbery <eagle@eyrie.org> - 2023-07-20 09:05 -0700
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Jesse Rehmer <jesse.rehmer@blueworldhosting.com> - 2023-07-20 17:23 +0000
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Russ Allbery <eagle@eyrie.org> - 2023-07-20 10:34 -0700
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Jesse Rehmer <jesse.rehmer@blueworldhosting.com> - 2023-07-20 18:03 +0000
              Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> - 2023-07-24 00:12 +0000
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Russ Allbery <eagle@eyrie.org> - 2023-07-23 17:38 -0700
                Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> - 2023-07-30 02:18 +0000
    Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation John <john@building-m.simplistic-anti-spam-measure.net> - 2023-07-09 18:08 +0000
  Re: Conference about Usenet, federation and moderation legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2023-07-20 16:01 +0000

csiph-web