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DEP 8: Gathering Django usage analytics

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  DEP 8: Gathering Django usage analytics Brian May <brian@linuxpenguins.xyz> - 2016-11-07 03:30 +0100
    Re: DEP 8: Gathering Django usage analytics Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2016-11-07 05:10 +0100
    Re: DEP 8: Gathering Django usage analytics Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2016-11-07 05:10 +0100
      Re: DEP 8: Gathering Django usage analytics Brian May <bam@debian.org> - 2016-11-17 08:20 +0100
    Re: DEP 8: Gathering Django usage analytics Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2016-11-07 16:10 +0100
      Re: DEP 8: Gathering Django usage analytics "W. Martin Borgert" <debacle@debian.org> - 2016-11-07 16:40 +0100
        Re: DEP 8: Gathering Django usage analytics Nicolas Chauvat <nicolas.chauvat@logilab.fr> - 2016-11-09 09:50 +0100

#8981 — DEP 8: Gathering Django usage analytics

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I think upstream Django have requested our feedback on this pull
request: 

https://github.com/django/deps/pull/31 

Should I ask on debian-devel? 

Regards

  

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#8982

On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 12:06 PM, Paul Wise wrote:

> Making it opt-in with *informed* user consent.

Thinking on it more, due to the whole click-through culture on the
modern web, I'm not sure that informed user consent is quite enough.
Some discussion of that phenomenon in the latest FaiF episode:

http://faif.us/cast/2016/nov/01/0x5E/

> Use a Django-hosted piwik/etc service instead of Google Analytics.

https://vimeo.com/97505679

-- 
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

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#8983

On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 10:21 AM, Brian May wrote:

> I think upstream Django have requested our feedback on this pull request:
>
> https://github.com/django/deps/pull/31

I would suggest a few things:

Making it opt-in with *informed* user consent.

Use a Django-hosted piwik/etc service instead of Google Analytics.

> Should I ask on debian-devel?

Seems reasonable.

-- 
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

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#9011

Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> writes:

>> Should I ask on debian-devel?
>
> Seems reasonable.

I did that here:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2016/11/msg00252.html
-- 
Brian May <bam@debian.org>

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#8986

On Nov 07, 2016, at 01:21 PM, Brian May wrote:

>Should I ask on debian-devel? 

I think you should, and I'll be very interested in that discussion.

Several packages in our team already apply deltas to upstream to disable
certain amounts of information gathering and reporting.  The most common
example I've seen is removing a little bit of JavaScript that reports usage to
Google.

With my upstream hat on, I'm quite sympathetic to the goal of gathering usage
data.  I often get asked "how many sites are using Mailman?" and I have to
answer "I don't know".  Actually, you used to be able to do a Google search to
find references to various clues on the typical Mailman 2 listinfo page, but
since those same searches were being used to spam the FSF (and the Mailman
project), those have long been disabled.  In any case, I'd love to be able to
provide some usage numbers, but oh well.  (Maybe that's why we languish in
Negligible Funding Land. ;)

Donald Stufft mentions in a comment on the Django thread that he's thinking
about doing the same thing with pip.  My initial reaction was that we'd have
to disable that out of privacy concerns.  Or, if it's opt-out, we might have
to change the default to opt-in, which of course reduces participation rates
and makes upstreams unhappy.

I'd love to know if there's a Debian-wide policy on such things.  E.g. if
"opt-out with informed user consent" was an official policy that we could
clearly point to and reference, it would greatly help provide guidance to both
Debian maintainers and upstreams.

Cheers,
-Barry

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#8988

Quoting Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org>:
> I'd love to know if there's a Debian-wide policy on such things.  E.g. if
> "opt-out with informed user consent" was an official policy that we could
> clearly point to and reference, it would greatly help provide  
> guidance to both
> Debian maintainers and upstreams.

In the issue at github someone already points out that popcon is "opt-in"
and I'm sure, that the overwhelming majority in Debian is in favour of it
in contrast to "opt-out". I can understand, that upstream would prefer
the latter, but Debian has a reputation for taking privacy issues very
serious and likes to keep it. Not sure about any policy on this, though.
If Django implements usage analytics, I would strongly suggest to make it
"opt-in" in Debian, just as popcon, not "opt-out".

Cheers

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#8991

Hi List,

On Mon, Nov 07, 2016 at 04:32:46PM +0100, W. Martin Borgert wrote:
> If Django implements usage analytics, I would strongly suggest to make it
> "opt-in" in Debian, just as popcon, not "opt-out".

FWIW as a long-time Debian user and supporter, I expect every piece of
software I install *not* to report any information about anything on
my system without my explicit consent.

I am concerned about my online privacy: on my systems even popcon
is not enabled and in my browser the CookieMonster and PrivacyBadger
extensions are enabled.

I would have no problem with Debian packages providing the bits of
code that would allow other Debian users to turn on a switch to
opt-in on providing upstream with valuable usage data.

-- 
Nicolas Chauvat

logilab.fr - services en informatique scientifique et gestion de connaissances  

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