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Wiki: Setup the environment, e.g. "salsa" script / Request to review modified docs

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  Wiki: Setup the environment, e.g. "salsa" script / Request to  review modified docs c.buhtz@posteo.jp - 2024-03-19 11:50 +0100
    Re: Wiki: Setup the environment, e.g. "salsa" script / Request to review modified docs weepingclown <weepingclown@disroot.org> - 2024-03-19 12:50 +0100
      Re: Wiki: Setup the environment, e.g. "salsa" script / Request to  review modified docs Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2024-03-19 17:20 +0100
        Re: Wiki: Setup the environment, e.g. "salsa" script / Request to  review modified docs Brian May <bam@debian.org> - 2024-03-20 01:20 +0100
          Re: Wiki: Setup the environment, e.g. "salsa" script / Request to  review modified docs Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2024-03-20 12:00 +0100
    Re: Wiki: Setup the environment, e.g. "salsa" script / Request to  review modified docs c.buhtz@posteo.jp - 2024-03-20 12:10 +0100
      Re: Wiki: Setup the environment, e.g. "salsa" script / Request to  review modified docs Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2024-03-22 17:40 +0100

#15621 — Wiki: Setup the environment, e.g. "salsa" script / Request to review modified docs

Hello together,

I still struggle with the docs but also improving them.

First of all please review my modifications to make sure there are no 
misleading errors in the content. I restructured the "Policy" section 
[1]. I shortened and rephrased the text. I also added a sub section 
"Setup and configure the system" with missing details.

I think in the long run I will add setup information to 
https://wiki.debian.org/Salsa and link to it from Python/GitPackaging 
wiki page.
Please see my Salsa related questions in the other thread.

As a side note: There is an open discussion at MoinWiki to improve the 
handling of headings and page titles [2]. The later should not be part 
of the TOC.

Best Regards,
Christian Buhtz

[1] -- <https://wiki.debian.org/Python/GitPackaging#Policies>
[2] -- <https://github.com/moinwiki/moin/issues/1648>

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#15623 — Re: Wiki: Setup the environment, e.g. "salsa" script / Request to review modified docs

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Hi Christian,

Improving docs is a very important thing, I appreciate your effort.

I quickly went through thr diff off your changes and it seems that you've changed the wiki to mention that using quilt is not recommended. While gbp pq is what the python team prefers indeed, the python team policy does not prevent quilt usage and instead mentions explicitly that optionally quilt can be used. As such, I do not find mentioning "using quilt is not recommended" appropriate as it has the connotation "you should not use quilt". As someone who takes advantage of the policy leniency and find quilt easier than gbp pq, I thought this has to be mentioned.

Once again, improving the wiki is a great thing to do. Please keep up the good work :)

Best,
Ananthu

On 19 March 2024 10:47:07 am UTC, c.buhtz@posteo.jp wrote:
>Hello together,
>
>I still struggle with the docs but also improving them.
>
>First of all please review my modifications to make sure there are no misleading errors in the content. I restructured the "Policy" section [1]. I shortened and rephrased the text. I also added a sub section "Setup and configure the system" with missing details.
>
>I think in the long run I will add setup information to https://wiki.debian.org/Salsa and link to it from Python/GitPackaging wiki page.
>Please see my Salsa related questions in the other thread.
>
>As a side note: There is an open discussion at MoinWiki to improve the handling of headings and page titles [2]. The later should not be part of the TOC.
>
>Best Regards,
>Christian Buhtz
>
>[1] -- <https://wiki.debian.org/Python/GitPackaging#Policies>
>[2] -- <https://github.com/moinwiki/moin/issues/1648>
>

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#15627

Hi,

Am Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 11:48:47AM +0000 schrieb weepingclown:
> Improving docs is a very important thing, I appreciate your effort.

+1
 
> I quickly went through thr diff off your changes and it seems that you've changed the wiki to mention that using quilt is not recommended. While gbp pq is what the python team prefers indeed, the python team policy does not prevent quilt usage and instead mentions explicitly that optionally quilt can be used. As such, I do not find mentioning "using quilt is not recommended" appropriate as it has the connotation "you should not use quilt". As someone who takes advantage of the policy leniency and find quilt easier than gbp pq, I thought this has to be mentioned.

As someone who touched a lot of packages (>2000) I've always used quilt
successfully and have seen quilt patches used by the majority of all
those packages.  This is not only true for DPT than generally in Debian.
Considering quilt as not recommended is definitely not matching the
reality and should not be written in Wiki.

> Once again, improving the wiki is a great thing to do. Please keep up the good work :)

+1

Kind regards
   Andreas.

> Best,
> Ananthu
> 
> On 19 March 2024 10:47:07 am UTC, c.buhtz@posteo.jp wrote:
> >Hello together,
> >
> >I still struggle with the docs but also improving them.
> >
> >First of all please review my modifications to make sure there are no misleading errors in the content. I restructured the "Policy" section [1]. I shortened and rephrased the text. I also added a sub section "Setup and configure the system" with missing details.
> >
> >I think in the long run I will add setup information to https://wiki.debian.org/Salsa and link to it from Python/GitPackaging wiki page.
> >Please see my Salsa related questions in the other thread.
> >
> >As a side note: There is an open discussion at MoinWiki to improve the handling of headings and page titles [2]. The later should not be part of the TOC.
> >
> >Best Regards,
> >Christian Buhtz
> >
> >[1] -- <https://wiki.debian.org/Python/GitPackaging#Policies>
> >[2] -- <https://github.com/moinwiki/moin/issues/1648>
> >

-- 
http://fam-tille.de

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#15629

Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> writes:

> As someone who touched a lot of packages (>2000) I've always used quilt
> successfully and have seen quilt patches used by the majority of all
> those packages.  This is not only true for DPT than generally in Debian.
> Considering quilt as not recommended is definitely not matching the
> reality and should not be written in Wiki.

gbp pq is just another way of quilt patches. The debian/patches written
by gbp pq are compatable with quilt. The patches written to by quilt can
be read using gbp pq import.

While gbp pq has a patch queue stored in git, you probably don't want to
push this to a shared repo.

But: If you create patches with quilt, and then import and export them
using gbp pq you might find that gbp pq wants to make minor/trivial
changes to the unchanged patch files. Which can be irritating when
making security patches, etc. Maybe this is why the practise is not
recommended?
-- 
Brian May @ Debian

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#15632

Hi Brian,

Am Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 10:59:34AM +1100 schrieb Brian May:
> Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> writes:
> 
> > As someone who touched a lot of packages (>2000) I've always used quilt
> > successfully and have seen quilt patches used by the majority of all
> > those packages.  This is not only true for DPT than generally in Debian.
> > Considering quilt as not recommended is definitely not matching the
> > reality and should not be written in Wiki.
> 
> gbp pq is just another way of quilt patches. The debian/patches written
> by gbp pq are compatable with quilt. The patches written to by quilt can
> be read using gbp pq import.
> 
> While gbp pq has a patch queue stored in git, you probably don't want to
> push this to a shared repo.
> 
> But: If you create patches with quilt, and then import and export them
> using gbp pq you might find that gbp pq wants to make minor/trivial
> changes to the unchanged patch files. Which can be irritating when
> making security patches, etc. Maybe this is why the practise is not
> recommended?

Thanks a lot for the explanation.  So the Wiki should be changed in this
direction it should include this explanation.  In any case creating the
impression quilt should not be used does not reflect reality.

Kind regards
   Andreas.

-- 
https://fam-tille.de

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#15633

Sorry, guys but I don't understand nearly nothing of what you explain 
here because I don't know the tool chain nor the process. But I hope you 
all do.

I modified the section:
https://wiki.debian.org/Python/GitPackaging#Policies

Feel free to improve my modification.
But please keep the target audience of this wiki page in mind. Keep it 
short and simple. Background infos and reationals should go into another 
document (e.g. a policy or DPT guide).

Kind
Christian Buhtz

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#15640

Am Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 11:04:41AM +0000 schrieb c.buhtz@posteo.jp:
> Sorry, guys but I don't understand nearly nothing of what you explain here
> because I don't know the tool chain nor the process. But I hope you all do.
> 
> I modified the section:
> https://wiki.debian.org/Python/GitPackaging#Policies
> 
> Feel free to improve my modification.

IMHO the best fit is:

- * '''Patch management regime''': The Debian Python team has chosen `gbp pq`. But it is also possible to use `quilt`.
+ * '''Patch management regime''': The Debian Python team recommends `gbp pq` as interface to `quilt` patches.

Kind regards
   Andreas.

-- 
https://fam-tille.de

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