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Re: How to install openjdk-7-jre-headless on Stretch

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  Re: How to install openjdk-7-jre-headless on Stretch Emmanuel Bourg <ebourg@apache.org> - 2017-12-14 16:40 +0100
    Re: How to install openjdk-7-jre-headless on Stretch Thorsten Glaser <t.glaser@tarent.de> - 2017-12-14 19:20 +0100
      Re: How to install openjdk-7-jre-headless on Stretch Miguel Landaeta <nomadium@debian.org> - 2017-12-14 22:10 +0100
        Re: How to install openjdk-7-jre-headless on Stretch Thorsten Glaser <t.glaser@tarent.de> - 2017-12-14 22:20 +0100
      Re: How to install openjdk-7-jre-headless on Stretch Emmanuel Bourg <ebourg@apache.org> - 2017-12-14 23:30 +0100
      Re: How to install openjdk-7-jre-headless on Stretch Markus Koschany <apo@debian.org> - 2017-12-15 00:00 +0100
        Re: How to install openjdk-7-jre-headless on Stretch Emmanuel Bourg <ebourg@apache.org> - 2017-12-15 00:30 +0100
      Re: How to install openjdk-7-jre-headless on Stretch Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2017-12-16 08:40 +0100

#10219 — Re: How to install openjdk-7-jre-headless on Stretch

Le 14/12/2017 à 16:33, Andreas Tille a écrit :

> What is the best way to deal with this under stretch?
> My first idea was a forwardport of openjdk-7.  Is this a sensible
> approach?

Hi Andreas, you may also install the Oracle JRE with java-package.

Emmanuel Bourg

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#10221

Hello Andreas,

> > What is the best way to deal with this under stretch?
> > My first idea was a forwardport of openjdk-7.  Is this a sensible
> > approach?

yes, this is a sensible approach. Doko’s packages build for a lot
of Debian and Debian-derivate-that-must-not-be-named releases, and
I’ve personally done a lot of back‑ and forwardports of them for
my workplace, so this should go without a hitch. He’s also mostly
receptive for patches fixing build issues on various releases.


Hello Emmanuel,

> Hi Andreas, you may also install the Oracle JRE with java-package.

you’re writing from an @apache.org address, so I’m assuming you’re
affiliated with the ASF. Furthermore, you’re a Debian Developer¹.

How can you, in full conscience, suggest something like this, to a
fellow Debian Developer, on a Debian mailing list? I mean, really?
That’s nōn-free and, in this case, useless, and additionally un‐
supported software at *best*, sabotage worse. (Admittedly, forward‐
porting would also need regular updates, but Doko provides those,
and one can subscribe to be notified upon new package uploads, and
I believe they’re prototyped in experimental first, which makes them
very easy to quickly grab.)

No ad-hominem intended, but I’m wondering whether DDs should take
a periodical requalification for the P&P part of NM if things like
this are being suggested. (With some packages I’ve seen, not from
you though, I’ve been wondering whether T&S refreshers are also
necessary, looking at lintian warnings alone is often enough to
make one shudder, and my DM mentee is cursing DDs often enough,
justifiedly, when he’s updating their packages.)


① lookup login:ebourg on https://db.debian.org/

bye,
//mirabilos
-- 
tarent solutions GmbH
Rochusstraße 2-4, D-53123 Bonn • http://www.tarent.de/
Tel: +49 228 54881-393 • Fax: +49 228 54881-235
HRB 5168 (AG Bonn) • USt-ID (VAT): DE122264941
Geschäftsführer: Dr. Stefan Barth, Kai Ebenrett, Boris Esser, Alexander Steeg

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#10222

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Hi,

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 6:15 PM, Thorsten Glaser <t.glaser@tarent.de> wrote:
> How can you, in full conscience, suggest something like this, to a
> fellow Debian Developer, on a Debian mailing list? I mean, really?
> That’s nōn-free and, in this case, useless, and additionally un‐
> supported software at *best*, sabotage worse. (Admittedly, forward‐
> porting would also need regular updates, but Doko provides those,
> and one can subscribe to be notified upon new package uploads, and
> I believe they’re prototyped in experimental first, which makes them
> very easy to quickly grab.)

There are better and more respectful ways to express your disagreement
with the approach proposed by Emmanuel here.

Just saying.

Cheers,
Miguel.

-- 
Miguel Landaeta, nomadium at debian.org
secure email with PGP 0x6E608B637D8967E9 available at http://miguel.cc/key.
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." -- Nietzsche

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#10223

On Thu, 14 Dec 2017, Miguel Landaeta wrote:

> There are better and more respectful ways to express your disagreement
> with the approach proposed by Emmanuel here.

Can you please point out to me what *exactly* you think was
not so good in my eMail, to help me understand?

I think a DD (and ASF associated-person) should not recommend
non-free software on a Debian mailing list, to another DD,
when Debian main provides a (better, even, in this case)
alternative.

bye,
//mirabilos
-- 
tarent solutions GmbH
Rochusstraße 2-4, D-53123 Bonn • http://www.tarent.de/
Tel: +49 228 54881-393 • Fax: +49 228 54881-235
HRB 5168 (AG Bonn) • USt-ID (VAT): DE122264941
Geschäftsführer: Dr. Stefan Barth, Kai Ebenrett, Boris Esser, Alexander Steeg

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#10224

Le 14/12/2017 à 19:15, Thorsten Glaser a écrit :

> you’re writing from an @apache.org address, so I’m assuming you’re
> affiliated with the ASF.

I'm just a casual contributor to some Apache projects, not an open
source guru. Maybe you confused the ASF with the FSF?


> Furthermore, you’re a Debian Developer¹.

I'm honored that you eventually noticed I was a DD after hundreds of
uploads and contributions here since 2013 ;)


> How can you, in full conscience, suggest something like this, to a
> fellow Debian Developer, on a Debian mailing list?

I made this suggestion because:
- I happen to maintain java-package
- The Oracle JRE consists in 99% of open source code.
- This alternative is possible from a technical point of view. I'm not
to judge its morality, Andreas can decide himself if it suits his ethic
and needs.
- As far as I know mentioning contrib/non-free packages on the Debian
mailing lists isn't forbidden.

Note that I'm not arguing against rebuilding Doko's openjdk package,
which is indeed remarkable for its portability. But maybe Andreas needs
a quick solution and prefers avoiding the long compilation time of OpenJDK.


> No ad-hominem intended

You are just stating I'm a bad DD that should go back to school, I've
seen better praises ;)

Emmanuel Bourg

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#10225

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Am 14.12.2017 um 19:15 schrieb Thorsten Glaser:

> you’re writing from an @apache.org address

May I point out that I'm the only one who is allowed to insult people on
this list. :E

 *psst* he is even writing from Windows 10  /*prepares a nice bonfire*/


@Andreas Getting back to the issue at hand: I also suggest OpenJDK 7
unless you want to maintain openam in non-free. If you decide to
forwardport OpenJDK 7 then you should be prepared that security support
will come to an end eventually. I am not completely sure but I suspect
OpenJDK 7 will reach EOL next year.

Regards,

Markus

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#10226

Le 14/12/2017 à 23:54, Markus Koschany a écrit :

>  *psst* he is even writing from Windows 10  /*prepares a nice bonfire*/

Haha I'm busted ;) More precisely I have two desktop computers on
Windows and Mac OS X and a laptop on Debian (plus several servers on
Debian and an Android phone). Do I get to keep my card of the Party or
should I head directly to the nearest T&S reeducation camp?

Emmanuel

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#10230

Hi Thorsten,

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 07:15:48PM +0100, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> you’re writing from an @apache.org address, so I’m assuming you’re
> affiliated with the ASF. Furthermore, you’re a Debian Developer¹.
> ...

Well, I'm a DD as well and I'm able to pick between different hints.  I
see no point in blaming somebody about say "unusual" hints, specifically
if it is someone who has proven to be very kind and helpful in countless
cases.

> porting would also need regular updates, but Doko provides those,
> and one can subscribe to be notified upon new package uploads, and
> I believe they’re prototyped in experimental first, which makes them
> very easy to quickly grab.)

I actually picked the one from experimental - may be I'll have further
questions about this.
 
> No ad-hominem intended, but I’m wondering whether DDs should take
> a periodical requalification for the P&P part of NM if things like
> this are being suggested.  (With some packages I’ve seen, not from
> you though, I’ve been wondering whether T&S refreshers are also
> necessary,

I admit I never needed to pass P&P or T&S and to some extend I agree
that refreshing this might make sense but I would not base this on
contributions to the mailing list.

> looking at lintian warnings alone is often enough to
> make one shudder, and my DM mentee is cursing DDs often enough,
> justifiedly, when he’s updating their packages.)

I confirm that some packages make me shudder - but that's OT on
this list.

Kind regards

      Andreas.

-- 
http://fam-tille.de

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