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Eclipse and Debian

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  Eclipse and Debian Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.pro> - 2017-11-27 09:10 +0100
    Re: Eclipse and Debian Markus Koschany <apo@debian.org> - 2017-11-27 17:40 +0100
      Re: Eclipse and Debian Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.pro> - 2017-11-27 20:40 +0100
        Re: Eclipse and Debian Markus Koschany <apo@debian.org> - 2017-11-28 19:10 +0100

#10171 — Eclipse and Debian

Hi,

This email is a general request for information about using Eclipse
(both packaged or downloaded directly from upstream) on Debian systems.

There is a packaging wiki page[1], it links to a missing page
https://wiki.debian.org/Eclipse - would somebody consider creating that
page and maybe adding answers to some of these questions there?

Some high-level questions:

- the current version of the package[2] is 3.8 (Juno), are there any
fundamental issues with newer versions or is it just a lack of manpower?

- for people who want to download later versions (e.g. Oxygen) directly
from upstream, could anybody comment on the JVM (OpenJDK or Oracle) and
version to use on the current and previous Debian stable release?  Maybe
a table on the wiki with Debian versions, JVM versions and Eclipse
versions would be useful if anybody is inclined to create it.

- upstream provides their own mechanism for adding and updating packages
within Eclipse.  Could anybody comment on some of the implications for
Linux users, in particular:
   - how to ensure several hosts (laptop, office desktop, home desktop)
have an identical set of plugins
   - how to ensure several hosts (laptop, office desktop, home desktop)
have identical settings
      - is a diff of the settings tree sufficient?
   - how to rollback to a known good state
   - how to keep several team members (shared filesystem or separate
hosts) in sync or help new team members/contributors start quickly with
a preferred configuration
   - could people create local plugin repositories to achieve some of
those things?

- best practices for Linux developers (either upstream or Debian) using
things like the Eclipse CDT and Autotools support
   - for example, I notice the default clean is "distclean" but some
people may prefer a regular "clean", are there other gotchas like this?
   - another example: the autotools support can do things like running
configure but some people may prefer to do most of that from the command
line and only let Eclipse run the make command

I realize that due to the nature of Eclipse there are not easy answers
to some of these things but it would still be useful to have a quick
summary of things for the wiki.

Regards,

Daniel



1. https://wiki.debian.org/Eclipse/Packaging
2. https://packages.qa.debian.org/e/eclipse.html

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#10174

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Hi,

Am 27.11.2017 um 09:03 schrieb Daniel Pocock:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> This email is a general request for information about using Eclipse
> (both packaged or downloaded directly from upstream) on Debian systems.
> 
> There is a packaging wiki page[1], it links to a missing page
> https://wiki.debian.org/Eclipse - would somebody consider creating that
> page and maybe adding answers to some of these questions there?

All information about Eclipse on the Debian wiki are outdated.

> 
> Some high-level questions:
> 
> - the current version of the package[2] is 3.8 (Juno), are there any
> fundamental issues with newer versions or is it just a lack of manpower?

The fundamental issue with Eclipse is the lack of manpower. See also
Debian bug #681726.

> - for people who want to download later versions (e.g. Oxygen) directly
> from upstream, could anybody comment on the JVM (OpenJDK or Oracle) and
> version to use on the current and previous Debian stable release?  Maybe
> a table on the wiki with Debian versions, JVM versions and Eclipse
> versions would be useful if anybody is inclined to create it.

OpenJDK 8 is the preferred JVM in stable/testing/sid and should work
with the latest Eclipse release.

> - upstream provides their own mechanism for adding and updating packages
> within Eclipse.  Could anybody comment on some of the implications for
> Linux users, in particular:
>    - how to ensure several hosts (laptop, office desktop, home desktop)
> have an identical set of plugins
>    - how to ensure several hosts (laptop, office desktop, home desktop)
> have identical settings
>       - is a diff of the settings tree sufficient?
>    - how to rollback to a known good state
>    - how to keep several team members (shared filesystem or separate
> hosts) in sync or help new team members/contributors start quickly with
> a preferred configuration
>    - could people create local plugin repositories to achieve some of
> those things?
> 
> - best practices for Linux developers (either upstream or Debian) using
> things like the Eclipse CDT and Autotools support
>    - for example, I notice the default clean is "distclean" but some
> people may prefer a regular "clean", are there other gotchas like this?
>    - another example: the autotools support can do things like running
> configure but some people may prefer to do most of that from the command
> line and only let Eclipse run the make command

Several plugins for Eclipse are already packaged for Debian but they are
in need of an update as well. It is also possible to install upstream
plugins and in most cases that just works. However we can't really
support this use case because there are too many factors to consider and
in general we can't control upstream code without creating a proper
Debian package.

At the moment I can recommend Netbeans as an alternative for Java
developers in Debian.

> I realize that due to the nature of Eclipse there are not easy answers
> to some of these things but it would still be useful to have a quick
> summary of things for the wiki.

I hope that helps a little

Regards,

Markus

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#10175

On 27/11/17 17:35, Markus Koschany wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Am 27.11.2017 um 09:03 schrieb Daniel Pocock:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> This email is a general request for information about using Eclipse
>> (both packaged or downloaded directly from upstream) on Debian systems.
>>
>> There is a packaging wiki page[1], it links to a missing page
>> https://wiki.debian.org/Eclipse - would somebody consider creating that
>> page and maybe adding answers to some of these questions there?
> 
> All information about Eclipse on the Debian wiki are outdated.
> 


OK, thanks, I created a link from that page to this thread

>>
>> Some high-level questions:
>>
>> - the current version of the package[2] is 3.8 (Juno), are there any
>> fundamental issues with newer versions or is it just a lack of manpower?
> 
> The fundamental issue with Eclipse is the lack of manpower. See also
> Debian bug #681726.
> 
>> - for people who want to download later versions (e.g. Oxygen) directly
>> from upstream, could anybody comment on the JVM (OpenJDK or Oracle) and
>> version to use on the current and previous Debian stable release?  Maybe
>> a table on the wiki with Debian versions, JVM versions and Eclipse
>> versions would be useful if anybody is inclined to create it.
> 
> OpenJDK 8 is the preferred JVM in stable/testing/sid and should work
> with the latest Eclipse release.
> 
>> - upstream provides their own mechanism for adding and updating packages
>> within Eclipse.  Could anybody comment on some of the implications for
>> Linux users, in particular:
>>    - how to ensure several hosts (laptop, office desktop, home desktop)
>> have an identical set of plugins
>>    - how to ensure several hosts (laptop, office desktop, home desktop)
>> have identical settings
>>       - is a diff of the settings tree sufficient?
>>    - how to rollback to a known good state
>>    - how to keep several team members (shared filesystem or separate
>> hosts) in sync or help new team members/contributors start quickly with
>> a preferred configuration
>>    - could people create local plugin repositories to achieve some of
>> those things?
>>
>> - best practices for Linux developers (either upstream or Debian) using
>> things like the Eclipse CDT and Autotools support
>>    - for example, I notice the default clean is "distclean" but some
>> people may prefer a regular "clean", are there other gotchas like this?
>>    - another example: the autotools support can do things like running
>> configure but some people may prefer to do most of that from the command
>> line and only let Eclipse run the make command
> 
> Several plugins for Eclipse are already packaged for Debian but they are
> in need of an update as well. It is also possible to install upstream
> plugins and in most cases that just works. However we can't really
> support this use case because there are too many factors to consider and
> in general we can't control upstream code without creating a proper
> Debian package.
> 
> At the moment I can recommend Netbeans as an alternative for Java
> developers in Debian.
> 

OK, thanks for that suggestion.  What about people developing in Python
or C++?  One particular reason I'm asking about this is to give
recommendations to our Outreachy and GSoC applicants.

>> I realize that due to the nature of Eclipse there are not easy answers
>> to some of these things but it would still be useful to have a quick
>> summary of things for the wiki.
> 
> I hope that helps a little
>

Yes, any feedback is good

Regards,

Daniel

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#10179

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Am 27.11.2017 um 20:38 schrieb Daniel Pocock:
> 
> 
> On 27/11/17 17:35, Markus Koschany wrote:
[...]
>> At the moment I can recommend Netbeans as an alternative for Java
>> developers in Debian.
>>
> 
> OK, thanks for that suggestion.  What about people developing in Python
> or C++?  One particular reason I'm asking about this is to give
> recommendations to our Outreachy and GSoC applicants.

Netbeans provides a lot of official and community plugins to enhance the
IDE. C/C++ support is quite good in my opinion and it is particularly
easy to start or import existing projects. There are also plugins for
Python, PHP, Javascript, etc. None of these plugins are packaged for
Debian but they can be installed on demand within Netbeans.

Regards,

Markus

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