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Impact of the new Java release policy on Debian

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  Impact of the new Java release policy on Debian Emmanuel Bourg <ebourg@apache.org> - 2017-11-24 11:10 +0100
    Re: Impact of the new Java release policy on Debian Markus Koschany <apo@debian.org> - 2017-11-26 22:00 +0100
      Re: Impact of the new Java release policy on Debian Thorsten Glaser <t.glaser@tarent.de> - 2017-11-27 13:10 +0100
        Re: Impact of the new Java release policy on Debian Markus Koschany <apo@debian.org> - 2017-11-27 17:40 +0100
    Re: Impact of the new Java release policy on Debian Matthias Klose <doko@debian.org> - 2017-11-28 08:10 +0100

#10162 — Impact of the new Java release policy on Debian

Hi all,

Oracle has recently announced a new release policy for Java [1][2], to
sum it up:
- new major Java revisions will now be released every 6 months
- there will be non-LTS releases supported for 6 months, and LTS
releases supported 5+ years
- LTS releases will be cut every 3 years
- Java 9 is *not* a LTS release, the next one will be Java 11
(previously named Java 18.9), to be released in September 2018

This is of course the policy for Oracle Java, not OpenJDK. It's not
clear at this point if other players like Red Hat intend to support
non-LTS OpenJDK releases longer than 6 months.

Assuming that Debian will stick to the LTS releases as defined by Oracle
I can see the following consequences:
- openjdk-9 will not be part of Buster, and we should aim for openjdk-11
instead.
- If the freeze for buster starts in December 2018, we'll barely have 2
months to complete the transition. Ideally we should start testing
sooner with pre-release builds.
- If we keep openjdk-8 as the default JRE until openjdk-11 is ready we
may not catch runtime issues with the latest JREs and fix them in time
for the freeze. This means we should probably change the default JRE as
soon as possible to openjdk-9/10 but keep openjdk-8 in the archive as a
possible fallback if we can't complete the transition to openjdk-11
before the freeze.
- After Java 11 the next LTS would be Java 17 to be released in
September 2021, probably after the Debian 11 release which would thus
ship the same JRE than Debian 10.

Emmanuel Bourg

[1] http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html
[2] http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/jdk-dev/2017-November/000089.html

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#10170

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Am 24.11.2017 um 11:05 schrieb Emmanuel Bourg:
> Hi all,
> 
> Oracle has recently announced a new release policy for Java [1][2], to
> sum it up:

[...]

Well, like you said, provided that OpenJDK 11 is also a LTS version and
released in time before the freeze, we could try to make OpenJDK 11 the
default JRE but keep OpenJDK 8 as the default JDK. I think it is
unrealistic that we can fix all build failures in two months. We would
have a similar situation as in Wheezy again, two Java environments but
only one (OpenJDK 11) is supported with security updates during the LTS
cycle. The other one (OpenJDK 8) is intended for development and
rebuilding packages. I wouldn't mind if java-common would switch the
default JRE to OpenJDK 9 right now but we should keep OpenJDK 8 as the
default JDK.

Regards,

Markus

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#10172

On Sun, 26 Nov 2017, Markus Koschany wrote:

> released in time before the freeze, we could try to make OpenJDK 11 the
> default JRE but keep OpenJDK 8 as the default JDK. I think it is

Eek, having more than one Java version on a system at a
given time invites trouble. (Yes, I know it works within
Debian, but…)

bye,
//mirabilos
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#10173

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Am 27.11.2017 um 13:08 schrieb Thorsten Glaser:
> On Sun, 26 Nov 2017, Markus Koschany wrote:
> 
>> released in time before the freeze, we could try to make OpenJDK 11 the
>> default JRE but keep OpenJDK 8 as the default JDK. I think it is
> 
> Eek, having more than one Java version on a system at a
> given time invites trouble. (Yes, I know it works within
> Debian, but…)
> 
> bye,
> //mirabilos

The alternative mechanism works quite well but the idea is that you only
have to install OpenJDK 11 to run all your Java applications. You would
only need OpenJDK 8 if you want to make changes to your packages and
rebuild them. Of course the ideal solution would be to fix all FTBFS
bugs with OpenJDK 11 in time so that we can ship only one JDK/JRE!

Cheers,

Markus

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#10177

On 24.11.2017 11:05, Emmanuel Bourg wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Oracle has recently announced a new release policy for Java [1][2], to
> sum it up:
> - new major Java revisions will now be released every 6 months
> - there will be non-LTS releases supported for 6 months, and LTS
> releases supported 5+ years
> - LTS releases will be cut every 3 years
> - Java 9 is *not* a LTS release, the next one will be Java 11
> (previously named Java 18.9), to be released in September 2018
> 
> This is of course the policy for Oracle Java, not OpenJDK. It's not
> clear at this point if other players like Red Hat intend to support
> non-LTS OpenJDK releases longer than 6 months.

yes, and I think there is the wrong conclusion that *OpenJDK* LTS releases will
get five years of support.  What I am reading is that OpenJDK source releases
will be made for 18 months (three updates), not more, and that the sources for
those Oracle releases are not made public.

> Assuming that Debian will stick to the LTS releases as defined by Oracle
> I can see the following consequences:
> - openjdk-9 will not be part of Buster, and we should aim for openjdk-11
> instead.
> - If the freeze for buster starts in December 2018, we'll barely have 2
> months to complete the transition. Ideally we should start testing
> sooner with pre-release builds.
> - If we keep openjdk-8 as the default JRE until openjdk-11 is ready we
> may not catch runtime issues with the latest JREs and fix them in time
> for the freeze. This means we should probably change the default JRE as
> soon as possible to openjdk-9/10 but keep openjdk-8 in the archive as a
> possible fallback if we can't complete the transition to openjdk-11
> before the freeze.
> - After Java 11 the next LTS would be Java 17 to be released in
> September 2021, probably after the Debian 11 release which would thus
> ship the same JRE than Debian 10.

having an unsupported OpenJDK version in a release which is only used for
building packages could be an option, yes.

Matthias

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