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Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?

From	joes <noreply@example.org>
Newsgroups	comp.theory
Subject	Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?
Date	2024-07-18 08:25 +0000
Organization	i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID	<4a999933a5d46fc107a48bd20c57b351c0bf5e43@i2pn2.org> (permalink)
References	(14 earlier) <v78grc$1rc43$7@dont-email.me> <159ee197e838dba6c5c6909dca74c8a14e136246@i2pn2.org> <v78uhb$1ud1t$1@dont-email.me> <049a13f967ba3113219beb2223852628643f850e@i2pn2.org> <v79a09$208km$1@dont-email.me>

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Am Wed, 17 Jul 2024 15:36:24 -0500 schrieb olcott:
> On 7/17/2024 3:30 PM, joes wrote:
>> Am Wed, 17 Jul 2024 12:20:43 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>> On 7/17/2024 12:16 PM, joes wrote:
>>>> Am Wed, 17 Jul 2024 08:27:08 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>> On 7/17/2024 2:43 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-07-16 18:24:49 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>> On 7/16/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-07-15 02:33:28 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>> On 7/14/2024 9:04 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/14/24 9:27 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>> You have already said that a decider is not allowed to answer
>>>>>>>> anything other than its input. Now you say that the the program
>>>>>>>> at 15c3 is not a part of the input. Therefore a decider is not
>>>>>>>> allowed consider it even to the extent to decide whether it ever
>>>>>>>> returns. But without that knowledge it is not possible to
>>>>>>>> determine whether DDD halts.
>>>>>>> It maps the finite string 558bec6863210000e853f4ffff83c4045dc3 to
>>>>>>> non-halting behavior because this finite string calls HHH(DDD) in
>>>>>>> recursive simulation.
>>>> That string is meaningless outside of the execution environment of
>>>> HHH,
>>>> specifically the simulation of DDD it is doing. It does not encode
>>>> anything, DDD does not have access to that address. That string
>>>> doesn't call anything, the program in HHH's memory space does.
>>>> Ceterum censeo that HHH halts.
>>>>>> That mapping is not a part of the finite string and not a part of
>>>>>> the problem specification.
>>>>> decider/input pairs <are> a key element of the specification.
>>>>
>>>>>> The finite string does not reveal what is the effect of calling
>>>>>> whatever that address happens to contain.
>>>>> A simulating termination analyzer proves this.
>>>>>
>>>>>> The behaviour of HHH is specified outside of the input. Therefore
>>>>>> your "decider" decides about a non-input, which you said is not
>>>>>> allowed.
>>>>> HHH is not allowed to report on the behavior of it actual self in
>>>>> its own directly executed process. HHH is allowed to report on the
>>>>> effect of the behavior of the simulation of itself simulating DDD.
>>>> HHH must report on itself if its input calls it.
>>>> HHH does not directly simulate itself, it just executes.
>>>> It reports on DDD by simulating it.
>>> Its input cannot call its actual self that exists in an entirely
>>> different process.
>> Of course it doesn't make sense to return to a higher stack frame.
>> And of course a function can recursively call itself.
> A separate process is like a different program on a different computer.
It makes no sense to call a running program. DDD creates a new
instance of the same code with its own memory and code pointer.

-- 
Am Fri, 28 Jun 2024 16:52:17 -0500 schrieb olcott:
Objectively I am a genius.

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