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TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication

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  TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2023-02-06 02:32 +0000
    Re: TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication Black Epyon <Blackepyon01@yahoo.ca> - 2023-02-06 07:07 -0800
      Re: TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2023-02-07 08:25 +0000
        Re: TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication Josh Malone <josh.malone@gmail.com> - 2023-02-07 07:16 -0800
          Re: TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication Walt Perko <r4rguy@gmail.com> - 2023-02-07 09:58 -0800
          Re: TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2023-02-09 10:41 +0000
          Re: TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2025-11-08 21:44 -0800
    Re: TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication bill <bill.gunshannon@gmail.com> - 2023-02-06 10:11 -0500
      Re: TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2023-02-07 08:20 +0000
        Re: TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication bill <bill.gunshannon@gmail.com> - 2023-02-07 12:31 -0500
          Re: TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2023-02-13 12:23 +0000
            Re: TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication David Plass <dplass@gmail.com> - 2023-02-16 10:04 -0800
              Re: TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2023-02-17 07:28 +0000
    Re: TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication Walt Perko <r4rguy@gmail.com> - 2023-02-07 04:36 -0800
    Re: TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2023-02-18 09:04 +0000
      Re: TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication Black Epyon <Blackepyon01@yahoo.ca> - 2023-02-19 06:43 -0800
        Re: TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2023-02-20 10:16 +0000
          Re: TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication Black Epyon <Blackepyon01@yahoo.ca> - 2023-02-21 07:16 -0800
    Re: TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2023-02-21 10:21 +0000
    Re: TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2023-02-27 01:53 +0000
    Re: TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2023-03-03 14:43 +0000
      Re: TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2023-03-10 17:53 +0000
        Re: TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2023-08-07 07:16 +0000
      Re: TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2023-03-23 10:12 +0000
        Re: TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication Bob Campbell <none@none.none> - 2023-04-02 04:14 +0000
          Re: TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication Walt Perko <r4rguy@gmail.com> - 2023-04-02 04:55 -0700
            Re: TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication Bob Campbell <none@none.none> - 2023-04-05 03:52 +0000
              Re: TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication Walt Perko <r4rguy@gmail.com> - 2023-04-04 22:25 -0700
                Re: TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication bill <bill.gunshannon@gmail.com> - 2023-04-05 08:51 -0400
                  Re: TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2025-11-08 19:14 -0800
    Re: TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2025-11-13 21:29 -0800

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#646 — TRS-80 Model 100 Board Replication

I guess I've decided to do a board replication project starting on the
M100. At this point, I'm looking for a dead model on ebay but no one
wants to sell for less than $100 with shipping it seems. I'd pay $50 for
a 'for parts' unit.

Success will define this project if I can get some assistance. I have
designed pcb's in the past but for simple projects. This will be, by
far, my most complex effort to date. And I hope a success in this
project will lead to more restoration projects in the future.

Daniel

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#647

On Sunday, 5 February 2023 at 18:32:23 UTC-8, Daniel wrote:
> I guess I've decided to do a board replication project starting on the 
> M100. At this point, I'm looking for a dead model on ebay but no one 
> wants to sell for less than $100 with shipping it seems. I'd pay $50 for 
> a 'for parts' unit. 
> 
> Success will define this project if I can get some assistance. I have 
> designed pcb's in the past but for simple projects. This will be, by 
> far, my most complex effort to date. And I hope a success in this 
> project will lead to more restoration projects in the future. 
> 
> Daniel
Are you planning on doing a drop-in replacement "replica" using modern components, or just an emulator? There's a copy of the service manual on Internet Archive that has the schematics, and should help get you started.
https://archive.org/details/TandyM100ServiceManual/page/n81/mode/2up

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#650

Black Epyon <Blackepyon01@yahoo.ca> writes:

> On Sunday, 5 February 2023 at 18:32:23 UTC-8, Daniel wrote:
>> I guess I've decided to do a board replication project starting on the 
>> M100. At this point, I'm looking for a dead model on ebay but no one 
>> wants to sell for less than $100 with shipping it seems. I'd pay $50 for 
>> a 'for parts' unit. 
>> 
>> Success will define this project if I can get some assistance. I have 
>> designed pcb's in the past but for simple projects. This will be, by 
>> far, my most complex effort to date. And I hope a success in this 
>> project will lead to more restoration projects in the future. 
>> 
>> Daniel
> Are you planning on doing a drop-in replacement "replica" using modern
> components, or just an emulator? There's a copy of the service manual
> on Internet Archive that has the schematics, and should help get you
> started.
> https://archive.org/details/TandyM100ServiceManual/page/n81/mode/2up

I'm planning a replica, one-for-one drop in of the board and all traces,
stencils, etc. Some dead devices are due to battery leakage and traces
will be destroyed in many areas - but many components will be okay. In
these cases the device is usually salvaged for parts only and that means
one device removed from circulation. Like the commodore, I'd like a
board replacement and there's been very little interest in the project.

I have the service manuals already and also have Birt's modern remake of
the schematics from his github.

I need to get a dead device so I can depopulate the board, remove all
solder/flux, and do a high definition scan of both sides for all three
boards.

Later, I'd like to redesign the power supply and convert it to USB-C
input and rechargable batteries, but that's way down the road.

I plan on posting my progress of this project on this thread as I go -
barring health issues. Also, I invite community members interested in
helping with design and/or documentation.

Daniel

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#652

On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 3:25:54 AM UTC-5, Daniel wrote:

> I'm planning a replica, one-for-one drop in of the board and all traces, 
> stencils, etc. Some dead devices are due to battery leakage and traces 
> will be destroyed in many areas - but many components will be okay. In 
> these cases the device is usually salvaged for parts only and that means 
> one device removed from circulation. Like the commodore, I'd like a 
> board replacement and there's been very little interest in the project. 

I have a couple of "parts boards" from dead 100s, but I specifically want the unique parts on them, so I would have to depopulate them before I send you the board (for which I have no use). I'm not sure how quickly you want to get these boards, but, given a bit of time, I could provide one.


> I need to get a dead device so I can depopulate the board, remove all 
> solder/flux, and do a high definition scan of both sides for all three 
> boards. 
> 
> Later, I'd like to redesign the power supply and convert it to USB-C 
> input and rechargable batteries, but that's way down the road. 

I would REALLY love to see that happen. There's lots of "improvements" that I think need to be made to these machines to make a modern replica board useful. Use modern RAMs instead of the Tandy modules. Maybe make the optrom socket JEDEC standard. Definitely the power supply, as you say. 

-Josh

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#654

On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 7:16:07 AM UTC-8, josh....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 3:25:54 AM UTC-5, Daniel wrote: 
> 
> > I'm planning a replica, one-for-one drop in of the board and all traces, 
> > stencils, etc. Some dead devices are due to battery leakage and traces 
> > will be destroyed in many areas - but many components will be okay. In 
> > these cases the device is usually salvaged for parts only and that means 
> > one device removed from circulation. Like the commodore, I'd like a 
> > board replacement and there's been very little interest in the project.
> I have a couple of "parts boards" from dead 100s, but I specifically want the unique parts on them, so I would have to depopulate them before I send you the board (for which I have no use). I'm not sure how quickly you want to get these boards, but, given a bit of time, I could provide one.
> > I need to get a dead device so I can depopulate the board, remove all 
> > solder/flux, and do a high definition scan of both sides for all three 
> > boards. 
> > 
> > Later, I'd like to redesign the power supply and convert it to USB-C 
> > input and rechargable batteries, but that's way down the road.
> I would REALLY love to see that happen. There's lots of "improvements" that I think need to be made to these machines to make a modern replica board useful. Use modern RAMs instead of the Tandy modules. Maybe make the optrom socket JEDEC standard. Definitely the power supply, as you say. 
> 
> -Josh


Hi, 

The thing about the boards is if the board itself isn't totaled, the circuit shouldn't be too difficult to repair.  Maybe just a bad cap or a chip died.  


.

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#655

Josh Malone <josh.malone@gmail.com> writes:

> On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 3:25:54 AM UTC-5, Daniel wrote:
>
>> I'm planning a replica, one-for-one drop in of the board and all traces, 
>> stencils, etc. Some dead devices are due to battery leakage and traces 
>> will be destroyed in many areas - but many components will be okay. In 
>> these cases the device is usually salvaged for parts only and that means 
>> one device removed from circulation. Like the commodore, I'd like a 
>> board replacement and there's been very little interest in the project. 
>
> I have a couple of "parts boards" from dead 100s, but I specifically
> want the unique parts on them, so I would have to depopulate them
> before I send you the board (for which I have no use). I'm not sure
> how quickly you want to get these boards, but, given a bit of time, I
> could provide one.

That would be great. Yes I'd love them soon than later so I can get to work.

>> I need to get a dead device so I can depopulate the board, remove all 
>> solder/flux, and do a high definition scan of both sides for all three 
>> boards. 
>> 
>> Later, I'd like to redesign the power supply and convert it to USB-C 
>> input and rechargable batteries, but that's way down the road. 
>
> I would REALLY love to see that happen. There's lots of "improvements"
> that I think need to be made to these machines to make a modern
> replica board useful. Use modern RAMs instead of the Tandy
> modules. Maybe make the optrom socket JEDEC standard. Definitely the
> power supply, as you say.

This is where the community would need to come in. You're talking about
territory way outside my knowledge. The point of this project, for me,
is to allow for full restoration of these old devices without removing
them from circulation. Some say there are so many of them out there that
it's okay. Our community is far more niche than the commodore side of
things. If a board has extensive trace damage from leaking caps and
other issues, I'd love if a board could be replaced and the working
components populated on the new board. I know it's alot, but it's being
done all the time in other communities like the C64. Hell, you can order
a board of all revisions and a choice of colors. Some youtubers have
managed to make brand new c64's with off-the-shelf components and
homebrew replacement chips.

And creating boards that accept all the old components but modified with
improvements I'm totally open to - but it's secondary far in the future
unless the community jumps on the bandwagon.

Daniel

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#782

Josh Malone <josh.malone@gmail.com> writes:

> On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 3:25:54 AM UTC-5, Daniel wrote:
>
>> I'm planning a replica, one-for-one drop in of the board and all traces, 
>> stencils, etc. Some dead devices are due to battery leakage and traces 
>> will be destroyed in many areas - but many components will be okay. In 
>> these cases the device is usually salvaged for parts only and that means 
>> one device removed from circulation. Like the commodore, I'd like a 
>> board replacement and there's been very little interest in the project. 
>
> I have a couple of "parts boards" from dead 100s, but I specifically
> want the unique parts on them, so I would have to depopulate them
> before I send you the board (for which I have no use). I'm not sure
> how quickly you want to get these boards, but, given a bit of time, I
> could provide one.
>
>
>> I need to get a dead device so I can depopulate the board, remove all 
>> solder/flux, and do a high definition scan of both sides for all three 
>> boards. 
>> 
>> Later, I'd like to redesign the power supply and convert it to USB-C 
>> input and rechargable batteries, but that's way down the road. 
>
> I would REALLY love to see that happen. There's lots of "improvements"
> that I think need to be made to these machines to make a modern
> replica board useful. Use modern RAMs instead of the Tandy
> modules. Maybe make the optrom socket JEDEC standard. Definitely the
> power supply, as you say.
>
> -Josh

Life sidetracked my plans. The project I started is in the box still
in my den closet. The idea of creating a drop-in replacement for
the model 100 pcb has fallen by the wayside. If there were interest in it,
the community would've done it already like the C64 community did for
theirs. You can get a fresh new PCB for every revision of that computer
and build a new one from scratch with off-the-shelf components. Can't do
that with a M100 in any respect. At this point, I know the Model 1 has a
drop in replica of the pcb for that machine. So there is a bit of
interest in the product family to create replicas. But anyway.. 

My original plan was a bit short sighted. Initially, the
thought was to replica PCB's to transfer M100 components
to a new board in an effort to revive an existing unit. The boards
would be made with modern manufacturing standards vs the cheap pcb's of
the original. And this would've served as a learning opportunity
regarding PCB creation, design, etc. I woujldn't have designed anything,
but replicating an existing design would've helped. but, the original
plan was to bring a dead product and restore it to factory fresh, if not
better. Naive.

The last few years have seen a dramatic increase of homebrew projects
that expand the features of our beloved model T. And since I am in love
with system-in-the-keyboard builds, my attention is sort of pulling
toward a homebrew project.

there are loads of system-in-keyboard builds out there. The feonix is a
recent addition to the world. Though I hope it doesn't end up a
commercial failure for the dev. Commodore was revived and they're
building yet another C64 by the thousands. The zx spectrum has been
rebuilt. Then there are others that aren't built into keyboards like the
color maximite. All these systems load basic from rom.

None of those systems appeal to me. Their keyboards are simply too
custom for my liking. Not saying they suck or anything, I just have a
habit in the way I type. The M100/102/200 keyboards were close enough.

I may start a new thread on the topic as I conduct research.

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#648

On 2/5/2023 9:32 PM, Daniel wrote:
> I guess I've decided to do a board replication project starting on the
> M100. At this point, I'm looking for a dead model on ebay but no one
> wants to sell for less than $100 with shipping it seems. I'd pay $50 for
> a 'for parts' unit.
> 

Welcome to eBay.  I was recently looking for a Realistic (Tandy Brand)
shortwave radio.  There were about 8 of them all listed as "not working/
as is/for parts".  Prices ranged from $150 to around $300.  The radio
only cost about $300 when it was brand new 40 years ago.  Go figure.

bill

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#649

bill <bill.gunshannon@gmail.com> writes:

> On 2/5/2023 9:32 PM, Daniel wrote:
>> I guess I've decided to do a board replication project starting on the
>> M100. At this point, I'm looking for a dead model on ebay but no one
>> wants to sell for less than $100 with shipping it seems. I'd pay $50 for
>> a 'for parts' unit.
>> 
>
> Welcome to eBay.  I was recently looking for a Realistic (Tandy Brand)
> shortwave radio.  There were about 8 of them all listed as "not working/
> as is/for parts".  Prices ranged from $150 to around $300.  The radio
> only cost about $300 when it was brand new 40 years ago.  Go figure.
>
> bill

> Welcome to eBay

I know, right?

Yeah the whole retro thing has become so big since covid that people are
expecting crazy money. I hate when people outbid and item, it sells,
then the same thing goes back on the market a day later. you know the
seller is looking for more money. Anyway that happened to me on a new
old stock sony walkman.

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#653

On 2/7/2023 3:20 AM, Daniel wrote:
> bill <bill.gunshannon@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> On 2/5/2023 9:32 PM, Daniel wrote:
>>> I guess I've decided to do a board replication project starting on the
>>> M100. At this point, I'm looking for a dead model on ebay but no one
>>> wants to sell for less than $100 with shipping it seems. I'd pay $50 for
>>> a 'for parts' unit.
>>>
>>
>> Welcome to eBay.  I was recently looking for a Realistic (Tandy Brand)
>> shortwave radio.  There were about 8 of them all listed as "not working/
>> as is/for parts".  Prices ranged from $150 to around $300.  The radio
>> only cost about $300 when it was brand new 40 years ago.  Go figure.
>>
>> bill
> 
>> Welcome to eBay
> 
> I know, right?
> 
> Yeah the whole retro thing has become so big since covid that people are
> expecting crazy money. I hate when people outbid and item, it sells,
> then the same thing goes back on the market a day later. you know the
> seller is looking for more money. Anyway that happened to me on a new
> old stock sony walkman.
> 

How about when someone says $200 OBO but then won't accept any offer
less than $199.  Just had one of them, too.

bill

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#664

bill <bill.gunshannon@gmail.com> writes:

> On 2/7/2023 3:20 AM, Daniel wrote:
>> bill <bill.gunshannon@gmail.com> writes:
>> 
>>> On 2/5/2023 9:32 PM, Daniel wrote:
>>>> I guess I've decided to do a board replication project starting on the
>>>> M100. At this point, I'm looking for a dead model on ebay but no one
>>>> wants to sell for less than $100 with shipping it seems. I'd pay $50 for
>>>> a 'for parts' unit.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Welcome to eBay.  I was recently looking for a Realistic (Tandy Brand)
>>> shortwave radio.  There were about 8 of them all listed as "not working/
>>> as is/for parts".  Prices ranged from $150 to around $300.  The radio
>>> only cost about $300 when it was brand new 40 years ago.  Go figure.
>>>
>>> bill
>> 
>>> Welcome to eBay
>> I know, right?
>> Yeah the whole retro thing has become so big since covid that people
>> are
>> expecting crazy money. I hate when people outbid and item, it sells,
>> then the same thing goes back on the market a day later. you know the
>> seller is looking for more money. Anyway that happened to me on a new
>> old stock sony walkman.
>> 
>
> How about when someone says $200 OBO but then won't accept any offer
> less than $199.  Just had one of them, too.
>
> bill

Happy update: After a weekend with the momo-in-law, good karma cashed in
with an ebay search this evening and found a dead M100 with a cracked LCD
display for $30 with zero bids with a 'buy now' price at $39. With
shipping, a bit north of $50. It's mine now and now I just have to wait
for delivery.

https://imgur.com/jskcJUG.png

It has a dead screen and, by the looks of it, tons of battery residue on
the battery terminals. It'll likely be quite ugly inside, but we'll
see. I'm taking the thing apart anyway. Fingers crossed the traces won't
be too terribly rotted.

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#670

Ah, so you're the one who bought that unit. I seriously considered buying it...but didn't give in to my obsession.

> Happy update: After a weekend with the momo-in-law, good karma cashed in 
> with an ebay search this evening and found a dead M100 with a cracked LCD 
> display for $30 with zero bids with a 'buy now' price at $39. With 
> shipping, a bit north of $50. It's mine now and now I just have to wait 
> for delivery. 
> 
> https://imgur.com/jskcJUG.png 
> 
> It has a dead screen and, by the looks of it, tons of battery residue on 
> the battery terminals. It'll likely be quite ugly inside, but we'll 
> see. I'm taking the thing apart anyway. Fingers crossed the traces won't 
> be too terribly rotted.

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#671

David Plass <dplass@gmail.com> writes:

> Ah, so you're the one who bought that unit. I seriously considered buying it...but didn't give in to my obsession.

Thank you so much for letting me have it. This device will be used for
science. Actually, I hope that, after the board is designed, that I may
be able to bring the device back into service if the traces aren't in
bad shape. Or maybe it could be my first transplant project.

The 100 community should have some space LCD's for sale.

>> Happy update: After a weekend with the momo-in-law, good karma cashed in 
>> with an ebay search this evening and found a dead M100 with a cracked LCD 
>> display for $30 with zero bids with a 'buy now' price at $39. With 
>> shipping, a bit north of $50. It's mine now and now I just have to wait 
>> for delivery. 
>> 
>> https://imgur.com/jskcJUG.png 
>> 
>> It has a dead screen and, by the looks of it, tons of battery residue on 
>> the battery terminals. It'll likely be quite ugly inside, but we'll 
>> see. I'm taking the thing apart anyway. Fingers crossed the traces won't 
>> be too terribly rotted.

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#651

On Sunday, February 5, 2023 at 6:32:23 PM UTC-8, Daniel wrote:
> I guess I've decided to do a board replication project starting on the 
> M100. At this point, I'm looking for a dead model on ebay but no one 
> wants to sell for less than $100 with shipping it seems. I'd pay $50 for 
> a 'for parts' unit. 
> 
> Success will define this project if I can get some assistance. I have 
> designed pcb's in the past but for simple projects. This will be, by 
> far, my most complex effort to date. And I hope a success in this 
> project will lead to more restoration projects in the future. 
> 
> Daniel


Hi, 

Personally, for the limitations of the Model 100, I'd say go for a Model 1 board ... 

As this is a replica, maybe add a VGA video OUT and USB keyboard IN and if possible a microSD card FDD or HDD to BOOT to OS and contain most if not all TRS-80 software and games.  


.

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#676

Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> writes:

> I guess I've decided to do a board replication project starting on the
> M100. At this point, I'm looking for a dead model on ebay but no one
> wants to sell for less than $100 with shipping it seems. I'd pay $50 for
> a 'for parts' unit.
>
> Success will define this project if I can get some assistance. I have
> designed pcb's in the past but for simple projects. This will be, by
> far, my most complex effort to date. And I hope a success in this
> project will lead to more restoration projects in the future.
>
> Daniel

Okay the victim 100 came in the mail today. It is as described. Looked
like it went through some serious abuse. Some black markings on the side
as if it was exposed to a high electric load. LCD is finished. Stickers
on the bottom with serial number are almost wiped clean, figure that
out. Wherever it was from originally, it was really not loved, liked,
disliked, or even hated. This little box was treated like a mafia hit
victim. 

Cracking her open and seeing the boards.

https://imgur.com/Bzek9eA.png
https://imgur.com/yhEDNnt.png
https://imgur.com/osSS0oG.png
https://imgur.com/0ev3sTB.png
https://imgur.com/u6I8CWw.png
https://imgur.com/Jvwls7M.png
https://imgur.com/8mZVQwE.png
https://imgur.com/H84Olmj.png
https://imgur.com/tBgWLYn.png

As I thought, a ton of residue. And time for deconstruction.

Anyhoo. Enjoy the images, I guess.

Daniel

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#677

On Saturday, 18 February 2023 at 01:04:51 UTC-8, Daniel wrote:
> Daniel <m...@sc1f1dan.com> writes: 
> 
> > I guess I've decided to do a board replication project starting on the 
> > M100. At this point, I'm looking for a dead model on ebay but no one 
> > wants to sell for less than $100 with shipping it seems. I'd pay $50 for 
> > a 'for parts' unit. 
> > 
> > Success will define this project if I can get some assistance. I have 
> > designed pcb's in the past but for simple projects. This will be, by 
> > far, my most complex effort to date. And I hope a success in this 
> > project will lead to more restoration projects in the future. 
> > 
> > Daniel
> Okay the victim 100 came in the mail today. It is as described. Looked 
> like it went through some serious abuse. Some black markings on the side 
> as if it was exposed to a high electric load. LCD is finished. Stickers 
> on the bottom with serial number are almost wiped clean, figure that 
> out. Wherever it was from originally, it was really not loved, liked, 
> disliked, or even hated. This little box was treated like a mafia hit 
> victim. 
> 
> Cracking her open and seeing the boards. 
> 
> https://imgur.com/Bzek9eA.png 
> https://imgur.com/yhEDNnt.png 
> https://imgur.com/osSS0oG.png 
> https://imgur.com/0ev3sTB.png 
> https://imgur.com/u6I8CWw.png 
> https://imgur.com/Jvwls7M.png 
> https://imgur.com/8mZVQwE.png 
> https://imgur.com/H84Olmj.png 
> https://imgur.com/tBgWLYn.png 
> 
> As I thought, a ton of residue. And time for deconstruction. 
> 
> Anyhoo. Enjoy the images, I guess. 
> 
> Daniel

The LCD is definitely buggered, but just because the liquid crystal leaks through the layer doesn't mean you can't get a picture (at least enough to see if the rest of the board works, it's worth a shot). The rest of the board should come clean with some cleaning vinegar and a light scrubbing. I wish I took pictures of the one turbo-XT I restored (Varta splooshed everywhere, blown tantalums, etc, had to replace one of the ISA slots, the corrosion was so bad), because as far as corrosion goes, both these boards are fairly light.

--Kyle

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#678

Black Epyon <Blackepyon01@yahoo.ca> writes:

> On Saturday, 18 February 2023 at 01:04:51 UTC-8, Daniel wrote:
>> Daniel <m...@sc1f1dan.com> writes: 
>> 
>> > I guess I've decided to do a board replication project starting on the 
>> > M100. At this point, I'm looking for a dead model on ebay but no one 
>> > wants to sell for less than $100 with shipping it seems. I'd pay $50 for 
>> > a 'for parts' unit. 
>> > 
>> > Success will define this project if I can get some assistance. I have 
>> > designed pcb's in the past but for simple projects. This will be, by 
>> > far, my most complex effort to date. And I hope a success in this 
>> > project will lead to more restoration projects in the future. 
>> > 
>> > Daniel
>> Okay the victim 100 came in the mail today. It is as described. Looked 
>> like it went through some serious abuse. Some black markings on the side 
>> as if it was exposed to a high electric load. LCD is finished. Stickers 
>> on the bottom with serial number are almost wiped clean, figure that 
>> out. Wherever it was from originally, it was really not loved, liked, 
>> disliked, or even hated. This little box was treated like a mafia hit 
>> victim. 
>> 
>> Cracking her open and seeing the boards. 
>> 
>> https://imgur.com/Bzek9eA.png 
>> https://imgur.com/yhEDNnt.png 
>> https://imgur.com/osSS0oG.png 
>> https://imgur.com/0ev3sTB.png 
>> https://imgur.com/u6I8CWw.png 
>> https://imgur.com/Jvwls7M.png 
>> https://imgur.com/8mZVQwE.png 
>> https://imgur.com/H84Olmj.png 
>> https://imgur.com/tBgWLYn.png 
>> 
>> As I thought, a ton of residue. And time for deconstruction. 
>> 
>> Anyhoo. Enjoy the images, I guess. 
>> 
>> Daniel
>
> The LCD is definitely buggered, but just because the liquid crystal
> leaks through the layer doesn't mean you can't get a picture (at least
> enough to see if the rest of the board works, it's worth a shot). The
> rest of the board should come clean with some cleaning vinegar and a
> light scrubbing. I wish I took pictures of the one turbo-XT I restored
> (Varta splooshed everywhere, blown tantalums, etc, had to replace one
> of the ISA slots, the corrosion was so bad), because as far as
> corrosion goes, both these boards are fairly light.
>
> --Kyle

I pulled the board out yesterday and did some serious scrubbing with the
vinegar. The solder-side of the board is more-or-less clean
now. Denatured alcohol is banned in my state of California. The hardware
stores don't carry 99% alcohol on the shelves. So I bought 91% from the
drug store. So stupid. 

My soldering iron, it turns out, isn't staying hot enough to melt
solder for very long. I am asking Mr. Carlson's Lab on youtube to fix it
and feature it on his channel.

Meantime I have to get another iron to do the work, and looking for a
solder vacuum that won't break the bank. Alot of the joints are really
hard to melt due to the caked on flux. Pain in the ass how hard it is to
depopulate this board. 

This device sat through a high heat environment - enough to make the
plastic on the molex connectors discolored while the male ends are
prestine white. The edges were cracked or broken off and dry making them
difficult to separate without destroying them. Chunks of resistor and
disc capacitors started flaking off during normal handling. It is tough
to imagine that the chips on this device survived the abuse. I'll have
to research how to test the non-memory chips before I decide what to do
with them.

If things go well with this project, I'd like to repopulate these
components on a newly minted set of boards. Of course, I have the hurdle
of desoldering them from their pcb jail.

Even though it's been frustrating at this point, I'm still having a
great time.

Daniel

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#681

On Monday, 20 February 2023 at 02:16:41 UTC-8, Daniel wrote:
> Black Epyon <Blacke...@yahoo.ca> writes: 
> 
> > On Saturday, 18 February 2023 at 01:04:51 UTC-8, Daniel wrote: 
> >> Daniel <m...@sc1f1dan.com> writes: 
> >> 
> >> > I guess I've decided to do a board replication project starting on the 
> >> > M100. At this point, I'm looking for a dead model on ebay but no one 
> >> > wants to sell for less than $100 with shipping it seems. I'd pay $50 for 
> >> > a 'for parts' unit. 
> >> > 
> >> > Success will define this project if I can get some assistance. I have 
> >> > designed pcb's in the past but for simple projects. This will be, by 
> >> > far, my most complex effort to date. And I hope a success in this 
> >> > project will lead to more restoration projects in the future. 
> >> > 
> >> > Daniel 
> >> Okay the victim 100 came in the mail today. It is as described. Looked 
> >> like it went through some serious abuse. Some black markings on the side 
> >> as if it was exposed to a high electric load. LCD is finished. Stickers 
> >> on the bottom with serial number are almost wiped clean, figure that 
> >> out. Wherever it was from originally, it was really not loved, liked, 
> >> disliked, or even hated. This little box was treated like a mafia hit 
> >> victim. 
> >> 
> >> Cracking her open and seeing the boards. 
> >> 
> >> https://imgur.com/Bzek9eA.png 
> >> https://imgur.com/yhEDNnt.png 
> >> https://imgur.com/osSS0oG.png 
> >> https://imgur.com/0ev3sTB.png 
> >> https://imgur.com/u6I8CWw.png 
> >> https://imgur.com/Jvwls7M.png 
> >> https://imgur.com/8mZVQwE.png 
> >> https://imgur.com/H84Olmj.png 
> >> https://imgur.com/tBgWLYn.png 
> >> 
> >> As I thought, a ton of residue. And time for deconstruction. 
> >> 
> >> Anyhoo. Enjoy the images, I guess. 
> >> 
> >> Daniel 
> > 
> > The LCD is definitely buggered, but just because the liquid crystal 
> > leaks through the layer doesn't mean you can't get a picture (at least 
> > enough to see if the rest of the board works, it's worth a shot). The 
> > rest of the board should come clean with some cleaning vinegar and a 
> > light scrubbing. I wish I took pictures of the one turbo-XT I restored 
> > (Varta splooshed everywhere, blown tantalums, etc, had to replace one 
> > of the ISA slots, the corrosion was so bad), because as far as 
> > corrosion goes, both these boards are fairly light. 
> > 
> > --Kyle
> I pulled the board out yesterday and did some serious scrubbing with the 
> vinegar. The solder-side of the board is more-or-less clean 
> now. Denatured alcohol is banned in my state of California. The hardware 
> stores don't carry 99% alcohol on the shelves. So I bought 91% from the 
> drug store. So stupid. 
> 
> My soldering iron, it turns out, isn't staying hot enough to melt 
> solder for very long. I am asking Mr. Carlson's Lab on youtube to fix it 
> and feature it on his channel. 
> 
> Meantime I have to get another iron to do the work, and looking for a 
> solder vacuum that won't break the bank. Alot of the joints are really 
> hard to melt due to the caked on flux. Pain in the ass how hard it is to 
> depopulate this board. 
> 
> This device sat through a high heat environment - enough to make the 
> plastic on the molex connectors discolored while the male ends are 
> prestine white. The edges were cracked or broken off and dry making them 
> difficult to separate without destroying them. Chunks of resistor and 
> disc capacitors started flaking off during normal handling. It is tough 
> to imagine that the chips on this device survived the abuse. I'll have 
> to research how to test the non-memory chips before I decide what to do 
> with them. 
> 
> If things go well with this project, I'd like to repopulate these 
> components on a newly minted set of boards. Of course, I have the hurdle 
> of desoldering them from their pcb jail. 
> 
> Even though it's been frustrating at this point, I'm still having a 
> great time. 
> 
> Daniel

Reflow some fresh solder onto the old joints, it makes it much easier. 

I use a Gaogie S-993A desoldering gun. I got it for $150CDN back in 2019 (and well worth what I paid), but they've jumped in price considerably. You might be able to get one for around $200 CDN. They've got a Preciva 929D-V on Amazon for about $30CDN, which is more like the traditional solder pump, but at least it's got the iron built in. Pick up a bit of desoldering wick if you haven't already. There's also several cheap soldering irons on Amazon with digital thermostats, but I haven't tried any of them.

For the surface mount chips, you WILL need a hot air re-work station. The 858D comes under many Chinese brand names, but they run around $60-80 CDN, and is exactly what you need. As with anything bought from China, be sure to open them up first and verify that the person assembling it at the factory did his soldering properly, and fix if necessary. Annoying, I know, but this is the price you pay when you're on a budget. 

--Kyle

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#680

Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> writes:

> I guess I've decided to do a board replication project starting on the
> M100. At this point, I'm looking for a dead model on ebay but no one
> wants to sell for less than $100 with shipping it seems. I'd pay $50 for
> a 'for parts' unit.
>
> Success will define this project if I can get some assistance. I have
> designed pcb's in the past but for simple projects. This will be, by
> far, my most complex effort to date. And I hope a success in this
> project will lead to more restoration projects in the future.
>
> Daniel

Project is on hold until I can get a cheap soldering iron that'll always
just work. Meanwhile I am shopping for a solder vacuum to make
depopulating easier. Right now, it's a big pain in the ass to get the
solder out with a gimpy soldering iron.

I think I found the vacuum on amazon - just a bit bulky. I need a few
days.

Daniel

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#685

Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> writes:

> I guess I've decided to do a board replication project starting on the
> M100. At this point, I'm looking for a dead model on ebay but no one
> wants to sell for less than $100 with shipping it seems. I'd pay $50 for
> a 'for parts' unit.
>
> Success will define this project if I can get some assistance. I have
> designed pcb's in the past but for simple projects. This will be, by
> far, my most complex effort to date. And I hope a success in this
> project will lead to more restoration projects in the future.
>
> Daniel

A little update on the project. Some unexpected car issues led to major
spending that effectively put an end to my pursuits until payday. My
budget was completely blown. 

The board is sitting in the closet until I can order that solder 
vacuum from amazon. Found one for just north of US $100 that seems to
have the features I desire. My budget was effectively blown for a few
months but this tool will be a necessity at this point. No cigars
until May/June. I'm hoping this will free all the components from their
pcb jails unharmed. Fingers crossed the chips come out nice and clean
for easy re-use. At this point, it has taken north of five hours to
remove a handful of components and frankly, what an epic waste of time
that turned out to be. I need proper tools if this continues.

Of the things on my list to obtain is a sheet of soft foam that I can
cut down for safe chip storage.

Meanwhile, I started going over the service manual this evening and
listing the chips on a clean spreadsheet. I am hoping to find modern
off-the-shelf equivalents for all of them. This pursuit will likely
spawn mod projects in the future - optimistic that this will lay good
groundwork. Some ideas I've received would make the M100 into a
completely different machine. My purpose now is to simply replicate the
boards with a growing desire to restore this dummy device once done.

Layer two: The service manual is a low quality scan of a low quality
manual. So, I will be replicating the service manual to a clean PDF with
clear diagrams and selectable text. No one wants to do it, so I will.
<major work>

Layer three: website. The idea is inspired by the activities devoted to
the C64. I'm going to create a large image map of the main board such
that a mouse hover over the components will show a small popup of the item
info. I will have to study how to do image maps, since it's been forever
since i've seen one. The site will be written in basic html with, at
most, early javascript. The idea is to have the page loadable on retro
systems and textmode browsers for as much readability as possible.

Regarding the victim device I obtained for this project, the PCB seems
in good enough shape for re-use. The system certainly saw a ton of abuse
including a high heat environment. Some resistors and few of the disc
capacitors literally fell to pieces after some gentle handling. I had
the board on a silicon mat while melting a solder joint. When I lifted
it to flip it around, half the disc of a cap was sitting on the
mat. Literally flaked off like it was a dead leaf. It may necessitate a
completely new stock of electrical components on a rebuild project. I
will NEVER sell that device after all the work it will demand. I may
also retro-brite the case and give it UV blocking clear coat to prevent
future discoloration.

That's all for now,

Daniel

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