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More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor

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  More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-09 10:47 +0000
    Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-12-09 11:57 +0000
      Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-09 14:07 +0000
        Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-12-09 19:14 +0000
          Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-09 19:17 +0000
      Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-09 21:19 -0500
        Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-12-10 05:18 +0000
          Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-10 00:27 -0500
            Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-12-10 05:38 +0000
              Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-10 02:13 -0500
                Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-12-10 08:12 +0000
                Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-12-10 08:15 +0000
                  Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-10 03:56 -0500
                    Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-12-10 09:14 +0000
                      Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-10 09:59 +0000
                      Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-10 05:02 -0500
                        Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-10 10:24 +0000
                          Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-10 05:53 -0500
                            Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-10 11:45 +0000
                          Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-11 22:06 +0100
                            Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-12 10:26 +0000
                              Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-12-12 10:39 +0000
                                Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-12 11:14 +0000
                                  Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-12-12 11:41 +0000
                                    Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-12 12:10 +0000
                                    Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-13 01:19 -0500
                              Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-12 12:19 +0100
                                Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-12 12:10 +0000
                                Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-12 23:42 -0500
                                  Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-13 13:30 +0100
                        Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-11 22:03 +0100
                  Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-10 09:57 +0000
            Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-10 09:55 +0000
              Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-10 05:36 -0500
                Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-10 11:33 +0000
        Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-10 09:47 +0000
          Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-10 05:29 -0500
            Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-10 11:29 +0000
            Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor Daniel James <daniel@me.invalid> - 2025-12-10 13:01 +0000
              Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-10 13:05 +0000
                Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-10 23:19 -0500
              Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-10 23:12 -0500
                Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-11 08:48 +0000
                  Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-11 04:19 -0500
                  Cable chasing (Was: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor) Daniel James <daniel@me.invalid> - 2025-12-11 10:15 +0000
                Inside out (Was: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor) Daniel James <daniel@me.invalid> - 2025-12-11 10:23 +0000
                  Re: Inside out (Was: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2025-12-11 18:16 +0000
                    Re: Inside out (Was: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor) John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> - 2025-12-11 18:28 +0000
                      Re: Inside out (Was: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-11 21:59 +0100
                        Re: Inside out (Was: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-12 11:21 +0000
                          Re: Inside out (Was: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-13 13:45 +0100
                            Re: Inside out (Was: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor) Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2025-12-14 06:38 +0000
                              Re: Inside out (Was: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-15 19:19 +0000
    Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-11 22:18 +0100
      Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-12 10:41 +0000
        Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-13 13:57 +0100
      Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-12 11:28 +0000
        Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-13 13:56 +0100
          Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> - 2025-12-14 19:22 +0000
      Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> - 2025-12-24 07:58 +0000
        Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-24 12:16 +0000
          Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> - 2025-12-24 14:04 +0000
            Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-24 14:23 +0000
              Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2025-12-24 17:00 +0000
                Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-24 20:07 +0000
                  Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> - 2025-12-24 23:17 +0000
                    Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-25 03:23 +0000
                      Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-25 07:32 +0000
                  Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-24 21:16 -0500
              Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-27 21:51 +0100
                Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-27 23:31 +0000
                  Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-27 23:58 +0000
            Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2025-12-24 23:01 +0000
          Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-25 02:29 +0000
        Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2025-12-24 22:53 +0000
        Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2025-12-25 03:25 +0000
          Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-25 03:34 +0000
            Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2025-12-25 10:43 +0000
              Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-25 11:43 +0000
              Re: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-25 18:44 +0000

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#37422

On 12/10/25 08:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 10/12/2025 13:01, Daniel James wrote:
>> On 10/12/2025 10:29, c186282 wrote:
>>> What we WANT is for a device connection to use
>>> the BEST signal - whether that's the primary
>>> router or an extender - and switch back and
>>> forth automatically depending on the connection
>>> quality. Looks like it CAN be done ... but ....
>>
>> I have a bunch of Ubiquity UbiFi access points around the house with 
>> wired backhaul to the router. They can also work with wireless 
>> backhaul, but we were having the house rewired so putting a load of 
>> CAT6 in, and a POE switch, was a no-brainer.
>>
>> They do exactly that. As a device moves between areas with different 
>> APs the APs detect which has the best signal and the one with the 
>> lower signal strength drops the connection. The device then reconnects 
>> and picks the one with the stronger signal.
>>
> Aha. So that's how they do it. No intelligence required in the client
> 
> So they talk to each other 'my client needs to be your client.'


   It's very clever.

   I set up one PI3 to do that, it was in an outbuilding
   and prone to be moved around. As I recall it was easier
   to do with older versions of Deb/PI-OS.


> That only happens with me when they go out of range completely.

   I *think* you could set a threshold, so they didn't
   jump over a momentary interruption.

   GOTTA look that stuff up again ... alas didn't make
   any copies of the old setup. It DID work though.
   I can ALMOST see the config file ... almost ....


>> They've been in place about four years, now, and seem to work well.

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#37421

On 12/10/25 08:01, Daniel James wrote:
> On 10/12/2025 10:29, c186282 wrote:
>> What we WANT is for a device connection to use
>> the BEST signal - whether that's the primary
>> router or an extender - and switch back and
>> forth automatically depending on the connection
>> quality. Looks like it CAN be done ... but ....
> 
> I have a bunch of Ubiquity UbiFi access points around the house with 
> wired backhaul to the router. They can also work with wireless backhaul, 
> but we were having the house rewired so putting a load of CAT6 in, and a 
> POE switch, was a no-brainer.
> 
> They do exactly that. As a device moves between areas with different APs 
> the APs detect which has the best signal and the one with the lower 
> signal strength drops the connection. The device then reconnects and 
> picks the one with the stronger signal.
> 
> They've been in place about four years, now, and seem to work well.

   Alas I had to re-wire some commercial structures
   for net/etc over the years, back when I was still
   young enough to crawl around in ceilings. What a
   pain in the ass ! The structures were made to spec,
   1950s spec, electric and standard telephone, and
   NO slack for add-ons.

   I've seen pix of British castles ... they just run
   lots of pipes on the outsides of the thick stone
   walls. Works, but you'd never get away with that
   in modern commercial buildings. Things have to
   look all neat and tidy.

   My house is early 50s ... mostly concrete and heavy
   wood, now a metal roof. Again it was NOT meant for
   running NEW stuff around. Half the bricks were
   solid-poured full of concrete. Everybody thought
   that the 1950s were the pinnacle of modern civ ...
   "What else WOULD you need to add in ???".

   I've had good success with wifi 'extenders' - and
   they're pretty cheap unless you want today's VERY
   fastest specs. Running two of them now ... one
   for out-buildings, another for a convoluted corner
   of the main house with the desktop I never use.

   Anyway, for the OP, one extender is the solution
   to his problem.

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#37423

On 11/12/2025 04:12, c186282 wrote:
> Everybody thought
>    that the 1950s were the pinnacle of modern civ ...
>    "What else WOULD you need to add in ???".
Reminds me of a brand new factory in Jo'burg. Solid concrete walls and a 
tin roof. And nnot a single socket or light that worked.

The contractor brought in to fix it spent 20 minutes looking and then 
said 'Fuck that - get the Kangas' and simply chipped new channels for 
*everything*. Laid in pipe conduit and got wiring.

Before the days of computers that was, let alone networking. We used Telex.

-- 
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to 
rule.
– H. L. Mencken, American journalist, 1880-1956

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#37424

On 12/11/25 03:48, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 11/12/2025 04:12, c186282 wrote:
>> Everybody thought
>>    that the 1950s were the pinnacle of modern civ ...
>>    "What else WOULD you need to add in ???".
> Reminds me of a brand new factory in Jo'burg. Solid concrete walls and a 
> tin roof. And nnot a single socket or light that worked.
> 
> The contractor brought in to fix it spent 20 minutes looking and then 
> said 'Fuck that - get the Kangas' and simply chipped new channels for 
> *everything*. Laid in pipe conduit and got wiring.
> 
> Before the days of computers that was, let alone networking. We used Telex.

   Esp in the 50s, well, they DID really think they
   were The Pinnacle. Everyone would always have
   their rotary-dial telephones, only a few, and
   need just a very few lights and sockets. So, they
   built, often large, structures reflecting that
   philosophy.

   Solid concrete ... or at least with gaps you could
   not GET to once construction finished.

   My last office, they wanted to add a couple of
   extensions. Had to force the builders to drill
   a couple of 2" holes through solid concrete
   lintels just so we could run comm/net cables.
   The lintels didn't really hold up much weight
   but were huge regardless. Took them like half
   a day to put the two holes though the lintels,
   and they hit a piece of rebar in the process.

   This was well before crap gypsum-board walls and
   drop ceilings.

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#37425 — Cable chasing (Was: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor)

On 11/12/2025 08:48, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> The contractor brought in to fix it spent 20 minutes looking and then 
> said 'Fuck that - get the Kangas' and simply chipped new channels for 
> *everything*. Laid in pipe conduit and got wiring.

That was the sparky's method when we had our (1830-ish, solid brick 
walls) house rewired a few years ago -- smash out channels in the 
bricks, lay the cables, plaster over ... and hope the walls still have 
the strength to hold the roof on.

Fortunately we had CAT-6 cables (and some coax TV aerial cables) as well 
as mains power put in, so most of what we want works more-or-less where 
we want it.

-- 
Cheers,
  Daniel.

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#37426 — Inside out (Was: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor)

On 11/12/2025 04:12, c186282 wrote:
> ... they just run lots of pipes on the outsides of the thick stone 
> walls. Works, but you'd never get away with that in modern
> commercial buildings. Things have to look all neat and tidy.

Have you SEEN the Centre Georges Pompidou in Paris?

... or the Lloyds Insurance building in London, for that matter.

-- 
Cheers,
  Daniel.

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#37427 — Re: Inside out (Was: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor)

On 2025-12-11, Daniel James <daniel@me.invalid> wrote:
> On 11/12/2025 04:12, c186282 wrote:
>> ... they just run lots of pipes on the outsides of the thick stone 
>> walls. Works, but you'd never get away with that in modern
>> commercial buildings. Things have to look all neat and tidy.
>
> Have you SEEN the Centre Georges Pompidou in Paris?
>
> ... or the Lloyds Insurance building in London, for that matter.

I seem to remember hearing that there was an English building code that
REQUIRED outside pipes for water (and sewage?) so that they could be
easily thawed with a blowtorch when they froze in the winter?

-- 
Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California

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#37428 — Re: Inside out (Was: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor)

On 11/12/2025 18:16, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> On 2025-12-11, Daniel James <daniel@me.invalid> wrote:
>> On 11/12/2025 04:12, c186282 wrote:
>>> ... they just run lots of pipes on the outsides of the thick stone
>>> walls. Works, but you'd never get away with that in modern
>>> commercial buildings. Things have to look all neat and tidy.
>>
>> Have you SEEN the Centre Georges Pompidou in Paris?
>>
>> ... or the Lloyds Insurance building in London, for that matter.
> 
> I seem to remember hearing that there was an English building code that
> REQUIRED outside pipes for water (and sewage?) so that they could be
> easily thawed with a blowtorch when they froze in the winter?

No, it was only done to save money.

John

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#37429 — Re: Inside out (Was: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor)

On 2025-12-11 19:28, John R Walliker wrote:
> On 11/12/2025 18:16, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>> On 2025-12-11, Daniel James <daniel@me.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 11/12/2025 04:12, c186282 wrote:
>>>> ... they just run lots of pipes on the outsides of the thick stone
>>>> walls. Works, but you'd never get away with that in modern
>>>> commercial buildings. Things have to look all neat and tidy.
>>>
>>> Have you SEEN the Centre Georges Pompidou in Paris?
>>>
>>> ... or the Lloyds Insurance building in London, for that matter.
>>
>> I seem to remember hearing that there was an English building code that
>> REQUIRED outside pipes for water (and sewage?) so that they could be
>> easily thawed with a blowtorch when they froze in the winter?
> 
> No, it was only done to save money.

It seems amazing to me doing that in Britain, were pipes can freeze. Now 
I understand the description of an hotel (Devon) in a novel I'm reading 
(Ruth Rendell, The secret house of death).

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#37437 — Re: Inside out (Was: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor)

On 11/12/2025 20:59, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2025-12-11 19:28, John R Walliker wrote:
>> On 11/12/2025 18:16, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>> On 2025-12-11, Daniel James <daniel@me.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 11/12/2025 04:12, c186282 wrote:
>>>>> ... they just run lots of pipes on the outsides of the thick stone
>>>>> walls. Works, but you'd never get away with that in modern
>>>>> commercial buildings. Things have to look all neat and tidy.
>>>>
>>>> Have you SEEN the Centre Georges Pompidou in Paris?
>>>>
>>>> ... or the Lloyds Insurance building in London, for that matter.
>>>
>>> I seem to remember hearing that there was an English building code that
>>> REQUIRED outside pipes for water (and sewage?) so that they could be
>>> easily thawed with a blowtorch when they froze in the winter?
>>
>> No, it was only done to save money.
> 
> It seems amazing to me doing that in Britain, were pipes can freeze. Now 
> I understand the description of an hotel (Devon) in a novel I'm reading 
> (Ruth Rendell, The secret house of death).
> 

I think the issue is that pre war, many many houses had no water, no 
inside toilet, no heating beyond a coal fire no electricity and so on.

Hence they were upgraded to a water tank in the roof and some form of 
sporadic mains water supply, fed via something coming out of the ground 
and into the house.
Drainage was often external - room size was small and the pipes were 
just routed outside for ease of installation. And indeed access for 
clearing blockages.

Retrofitting modern infrastructure to old houses is massively expensive.



-- 
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They 
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher

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#37446 — Re: Inside out (Was: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor)

On 2025-12-12 12:21, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 11/12/2025 20:59, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2025-12-11 19:28, John R Walliker wrote:
>>> On 11/12/2025 18:16, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>>> On 2025-12-11, Daniel James <daniel@me.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On 11/12/2025 04:12, c186282 wrote:
>>>>>> ... they just run lots of pipes on the outsides of the thick stone
>>>>>> walls. Works, but you'd never get away with that in modern
>>>>>> commercial buildings. Things have to look all neat and tidy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you SEEN the Centre Georges Pompidou in Paris?
>>>>>
>>>>> ... or the Lloyds Insurance building in London, for that matter.
>>>>
>>>> I seem to remember hearing that there was an English building code that
>>>> REQUIRED outside pipes for water (and sewage?) so that they could be
>>>> easily thawed with a blowtorch when they froze in the winter?
>>>
>>> No, it was only done to save money.
>>
>> It seems amazing to me doing that in Britain, were pipes can freeze. 
>> Now I understand the description of an hotel (Devon) in a novel I'm 
>> reading (Ruth Rendell, The secret house of death).
>>
> 
> I think the issue is that pre war, many many houses had no water, no 
> inside toilet, no heating beyond a coal fire no electricity and so on.
> 
> Hence they were upgraded to a water tank in the roof and some form of 
> sporadic mains water supply, fed via something coming out of the ground 
> and into the house.
> Drainage was often external - room size was small and the pipes were 
> just routed outside for ease of installation. And indeed access for 
> clearing blockages.
> 
> Retrofitting modern infrastructure to old houses is massively expensive.

My city is ancient, three thousand years, but there is no river. Well 
water tends to be salty, from the sea; mixed often. I don't know how 
they survived. I think the water in sufficient quantities arrived in 
1945, from a river 170 Km to the north. So before that year, houses here 
had no bathrooms, they were built since then as houses were provided 
with running water. Yet, I have not seen that network of pipes on the 
outside, except for rain water from the roof.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#37450 — Re: Inside out (Was: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor)

On 13 Dec 2025 at 12:45:41, "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> My city is ancient, three thousand years, but there is no river. Well
> water tends to be salty, from the sea; mixed often. I don't know how
> they survived. I think the water in sufficient quantities arrived in
> 1945, from a river 170 Km to the north. So before that year, houses here
> had no bathrooms, they were built since then as houses were provided
> with running water. Yet, I have not seen that network of pipes on the
> outside, except for rain water from the roof.

Would that be Cadiz?

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#37453 — Re: Inside out (Was: More on wifi range - Pi PICO W Oil level sensor)

On 14/12/2025 06:38, Bob Martin wrote:
> On 13 Dec 2025 at 12:45:41, "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> My city is ancient, three thousand years, but there is no river. Well
>> water tends to be salty, from the sea; mixed often. I don't know how
>> they survived. I think the water in sufficient quantities arrived in
>> 1945, from a river 170 Km to the north. So before that year, houses here
>> had no bathrooms, they were built since then as houses were provided
>> with running water. Yet, I have not seen that network of pipes on the
>> outside, except for rain water from the roof.
> 
> Would that be Cadiz?
> 
No. I think it begins with a C but it's not Cadiz. Cartagena?
If it is, it looks like a fabulous place to visit.


-- 
"It was a lot more fun being 20 in the 70's that it is being 70 in the 20's"
Joew Walsh

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#37432

On 2025-12-09 11:47, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> First of all thanks to all those who responded on my first efforts to 
> put a battery power Pi Pico W outside and have it phone home.
> 
> Having eliminated temperature and supply voltage as issues, I delved 
> into wifi and router logs, and it was clear that it was sometimes 
> getting a DHCP lease and even occasionally opening a TCP/IP connections 
> and sending data. And might be dependent on where I parked the car and 
> the weather.
> 
> I tried putting a tin tray behind the router and that made it worse.
> 
> Now the layout was that a ground floor router through the window and the 
> garage was not very good at about 30m range.
> 
> Then I remembered I had put an Ethernet port in an upstairs bedroom by 
> the window in case I wanted to use it as an office.
> 
> It was further away - 35m or so - but much less cluttered path. It just 
> had to go through a corner of the garage.
> 
> Instantly the router reported about 8-10dB more signal and almost 
> reliable comms resulted.

Two ideas.

Some routers can steer the signal horizontally; the technology is called 
"MIMO" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIMO). You notice because the 
router has multiple antenas, maybe four.

Then you can replace the antena on the router or the remote with a 
directional WiFi antena. Home made with a box of Pringles. just google 
for "pringles wifi antenna". I made one and it actually works. But maybe 
they are sold, too.

...

> And I knew all that trig would come in handy one day :-)

You can calculate it numerically on a computer, by calculating the 
aproximate integral ;-)

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#37435

On 11/12/2025 21:18, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2025-12-09 11:47, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> First of all thanks to all those who responded on my first efforts to 
>> put a battery power Pi Pico W outside and have it phone home.
>>
>> Having eliminated temperature and supply voltage as issues, I delved 
>> into wifi and router logs, and it was clear that it was sometimes 
>> getting a DHCP lease and even occasionally opening a TCP/IP 
>> connections and sending data. And might be dependent on where I parked 
>> the car and the weather.
>>
>> I tried putting a tin tray behind the router and that made it worse.
>>
>> Now the layout was that a ground floor router through the window and 
>> the garage was not very good at about 30m range.
>>
>> Then I remembered I had put an Ethernet port in an upstairs bedroom by 
>> the window in case I wanted to use it as an office.
>>
>> It was further away - 35m or so - but much less cluttered path. It 
>> just had to go through a corner of the garage.
>>
>> Instantly the router reported about 8-10dB more signal and almost 
>> reliable comms resulted.
> 
> Two ideas.
> 
> Some routers can steer the signal horizontally; the technology is called 
> "MIMO" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIMO). You notice because the 
> router has multiple antenas, maybe four.
> 
> Then you can replace the antena on the router or the remote with a 
> directional WiFi antena. Home made with a box of Pringles. just google 
> for "pringles wifi antenna". I made one and it actually works. But maybe 
> they are sold, too.
> 
I sorta tried that without huge success, In fact I am getting up to 12dB 
variation in signal due to who knows what?

The setup is all somewhat experimental. At least  for now the software 
is more or less stable - I have a few hanging daemons if the link goes 
down mid message - but that is easily fixed .

> ...
> 
>> And I knew all that trig would come in handy one day :-)
> 
> You can calculate it numerically on a computer, by calculating the 
> aproximate integral ;-)
> 
Huh? it can be as exact as your measurements are.
No 'approximations' here...		

		diameter= tankDepth - offset;
		radius = diameter * 0.5;
		y = echoDepth - offset -radius;
		theta = asin( y / radius);
		x = radius * cos(theta);
		pie= radius * radius * theta;
		delta = x * y;
		area= (M_PI * radius *radius)/2 - (pie + delta);
		volume=(area/(M_PI * radius *radius ))*tankVolume;

That is about ultimately three days of work. It is redundant but I think 
gcc can optimise out the intermediary variables that I used to make sure 
even I could understand it.



What has been encouraging is the pinpoint accuracy of the measurements. 
Once in a stable environment the ultrasonics are very precise. something 
like a mm or two in a couple of metres. Probably more precise than the 
speed of sound in air of variable pressures would justify, or indeed the 
expansion of the oil in warmer temperatures.

LOL.

Maybe I have built the world's most complicated barometer.

-- 
“it should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism 
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans, 
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and 
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a 
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,' 
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for 
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet 
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that 
you live neither in Joseph Stalin’s Communist era, nor in the Orwellian 
utopia of 1984.”

Vaclav Klaus

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#37448

On 2025-12-12 11:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 11/12/2025 21:18, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2025-12-09 11:47, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> First of all thanks to all those who responded on my first efforts to 
>>> put a battery power Pi Pico W outside and have it phone home.
>>>
>>> Having eliminated temperature and supply voltage as issues, I delved 
>>> into wifi and router logs, and it was clear that it was sometimes 
>>> getting a DHCP lease and even occasionally opening a TCP/IP 
>>> connections and sending data. And might be dependent on where I 
>>> parked the car and the weather.
>>>
>>> I tried putting a tin tray behind the router and that made it worse.
>>>
>>> Now the layout was that a ground floor router through the window and 
>>> the garage was not very good at about 30m range.
>>>
>>> Then I remembered I had put an Ethernet port in an upstairs bedroom 
>>> by the window in case I wanted to use it as an office.
>>>
>>> It was further away - 35m or so - but much less cluttered path. It 
>>> just had to go through a corner of the garage.
>>>
>>> Instantly the router reported about 8-10dB more signal and almost 
>>> reliable comms resulted.
>>
>> Two ideas.
>>
>> Some routers can steer the signal horizontally; the technology is 
>> called "MIMO" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIMO). You notice because 
>> the router has multiple antenas, maybe four.
>>
>> Then you can replace the antena on the router or the remote with a 
>> directional WiFi antena. Home made with a box of Pringles. just google 
>> for "pringles wifi antenna". I made one and it actually works. But 
>> maybe they are sold, too.
>>
> I sorta tried that without huge success, In fact I am getting up to 12dB 
> variation in signal due to who knows what?
> 
> The setup is all somewhat experimental. At least  for now the software 
> is more or less stable - I have a few hanging daemons if the link goes 
> down mid message - but that is easily fixed .
> 
>> ...
>>
>>> And I knew all that trig would come in handy one day :-)
>>
>> You can calculate it numerically on a computer, by calculating the 
>> aproximate integral ;-)
>>
> Huh? it can be as exact as your measurements are.
> No 'approximations' here...
> 
>          diameter= tankDepth - offset;
>          radius = diameter * 0.5;
>          y = echoDepth - offset -radius;
>          theta = asin( y / radius);
>          x = radius * cos(theta);
>          pie= radius * radius * theta;
>          delta = x * y;
>          area= (M_PI * radius *radius)/2 - (pie + delta);
>          volume=(area/(M_PI * radius *radius ))*tankVolume;
> 
> That is about ultimately three days of work. It is redundant but I think 
> gcc can optimise out the intermediary variables that I used to make sure 
> even I could understand it.

You can aproximate the chord with a rectangle. If you divide the chord 
in two, it is two rectangles. Up to a thousand rectangles, or a million. 
The numerical result is close to the real result with a math formula. 
Kind of  Runge-Kutta.

:-D

Or ask ChatGPT for the formula. I sure don't remember it, I doubt I ever 
saw it.


> 
> 
> 
> What has been encouraging is the pinpoint accuracy of the measurements. 
> Once in a stable environment the ultrasonics are very precise. something 
> like a mm or two in a couple of metres. Probably more precise than the 
> speed of sound in air of variable pressures would justify, or indeed the 
> expansion of the oil in warmer temperatures.
> 
> LOL.
> 
> Maybe I have built the world's most complicated barometer.
> 


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#37439

On 11/12/2025 21:18, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> 
> Two ideas.
> 
> Some routers can steer the signal horizontally; the technology is called 
> "MIMO" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIMO). You notice because the 
> router has multiple antenas, maybe four.
> 
> Then you can replace the antena on the router

What antenna on the router?

It's just a wifi bridge with an internal something or other.

https://www.netxl.com/wifi-access-points/mikrotik-routerboard-rb951ui-2nd-wifi-4-access-point/

Its actually very very cheap and has been 'good enough'


  > or the remote with a
> directional WiFi antena. 

That gets complicated. I am trying easy shit first :-)

P Pico W doesn't have an 'antenna' either. Just some PCB traces.

>Home made with a box of Pringles. just google 
> for "pringles wifi antenna". I made one and it actually works. But maybe 
> they are sold, too.

Everything is possible. I am lazy. I do what is necessary to achieve 
desired result and no more.

For now I seem to have adequate connectivity.

-- 
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
...than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman

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#37447

On 2025-12-12 12:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 11/12/2025 21:18, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>
>> Two ideas.
>>
>> Some routers can steer the signal horizontally; the technology is 
>> called "MIMO" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIMO). You notice because 
>> the router has multiple antenas, maybe four.
>>
>> Then you can replace the antena on the router
> 
> What antenna on the router?
> 
> It's just a wifi bridge with an internal something or other.

Ah, pity. Many AP have external antenas that are screwed on a socket.

> 
> https://www.netxl.com/wifi-access-points/mikrotik-routerboard- 
> rb951ui-2nd-wifi-4-access-point/
> 
> Its actually very very cheap and has been 'good enough'

Barely :-)

> 
> 
>   > or the remote with a
>> directional WiFi antena. 
> 
> That gets complicated. I am trying easy shit first :-)
> 
> P Pico W doesn't have an 'antenna' either. Just some PCB traces.

Yeah, well.

> 
>> Home made with a box of Pringles. just google for "pringles wifi 
>> antenna". I made one and it actually works. But maybe they are sold, too.
> 
> Everything is possible. I am lazy. I do what is necessary to achieve 
> desired result and no more.
> 
> For now I seem to have adequate connectivity.

Of course, that is enough.


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#37451

On 13/12/2025 12:56, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2025-12-12 12:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 11/12/2025 21:18, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>
>>> Two ideas.
>>>
>>> Some routers can steer the signal horizontally; the technology is 
>>> called "MIMO" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIMO). You notice 
>>> because the router has multiple antenas, maybe four.
>>>
>>> Then you can replace the antena on the router
>>
>> What antenna on the router?
>>
>> It's just a wifi bridge with an internal something or other.
> 
> Ah, pity. Many AP have external antenas that are screwed on a socket.
> 
>>
>> https://www.netxl.com/wifi-access-points/mikrotik-routerboard- 
>> rb951ui-2nd-wifi-4-access-point/
>>
>> Its actually very very cheap and has been 'good enough'
> 
> Barely :-)
> 
>>
>>
>>   > or the remote with a
>>> directional WiFi antena. 
>>
>> That gets complicated. I am trying easy shit first :-)
>>
>> P Pico W doesn't have an 'antenna' either. Just some PCB traces.
> 
> Yeah, well.
> 


Actually it is a slot antenna. There is a gap in the ground plane which
is equivalent to a dipole.  It works remarkably well for its size.

John

>>
>>> Home made with a box of Pringles. just google for "pringles wifi 
>>> antenna". I made one and it actually works. But maybe they are sold, 
>>> too.
>>
>> Everything is possible. I am lazy. I do what is necessary to achieve 
>> desired result and no more.
>>
>> For now I seem to have adequate connectivity.
> 
> Of course, that is enough.
> 
> 

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#37484

On 11/12/2025 21:18, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> Home made with a box of Pringles. just google for "pringles wifi antenna".

Also Google cutoff frequency and see that the Pringle tube is too small 
in diameter to be effective at 2.4GHz.

Of course, designs on the internet do not have to follow the laws of 
physics! :-)

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