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System password

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  System password Athel Cornish-Bowden <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> - 2020-11-29 15:19 +0100
    Re: System password nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-29 09:57 -0500
      Re: System password Athel Cornish-Bowden <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> - 2020-11-29 16:15 +0100
        Re: System password Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-11-30 09:38 +1300
      Re: System password Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-29 20:54 +0000
        Re: System password nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-29 16:04 -0500
          Re: System password Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-11-29 13:43 -0800
            Re: System password Athel Cornish-Bowden <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> - 2020-11-30 09:31 +0100
              Zoom (Was: Re: System password) Bernd Froehlich <befr@eaglesoft.de> - 2020-11-30 10:23 +0000
                Re: Zoom (Was: Re: System password) Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-30 13:24 +0000
                  Re: Zoom (Was: Re: System password) Bernd Froehlich <befr@eaglesoft.de> - 2020-12-01 07:37 +0000
                    Re: Zoom (Was: Re: System password) Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-12-01 08:52 +0000
          Re: System password Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-29 21:58 +0000
        Re: System password Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-29 16:30 -0500
    Re: System password Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-29 20:53 +0000
    Re: System password Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-11-29 13:42 -0800
      Re: System password Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-29 22:35 +0000
        Re: System password Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-11-29 14:40 -0800
          Re: System password Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-30 05:06 +0000
            Re: System password Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-11-30 00:24 -0800
              Re: System password Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-30 13:21 +0000
                Re: System password Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-11-30 12:50 -0800
                  Re: System password Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-30 22:40 +0000
                    Re: System password Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-11-30 15:18 -0800
      Re: System password Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-11-30 15:25 +1300

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#135465 — System password

My wife wants me to install Zoom in her computer (MacBook Air, several 
years old; OS 10.8.5). Unfortunately she doesn't have any idea what her 
system password is -- indeed, she didn't know she even had a system 
password. Is there any way to find out? With the Terminal perhaps? I 
expect Lewis will know if there is an answer -- anyone else?




-- 
Athel

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#135469

In article <i2hovjF1nhmU1@mid.individual.net>, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:

> My wife wants me to install Zoom in her computer (MacBook Air, several 
> years old; OS 10.8.5). Unfortunately she doesn't have any idea what her 
> system password is -- indeed, she didn't know she even had a system 
> password. Is there any way to find out? With the Terminal perhaps? I 
> expect Lewis will know if there is an answer -- anyone else?

no. that would be a huge security hole. however you can reset the
password to something new.

keep in mind that the keychain password will not be reset, which will
likely cause various problems going forward because they're now
different.

you could just keep trying to guess what it is. 

better yet, do not use zoom at all. it's a *huge* security disaster and
its use has been banned or restricted by many, many entities, including
the united states senate, new york public schools, apple, google, nasa,
space-x, germany, singapore, taiwan and many more.

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#135471

On 2020-11-29 14:57:41 +0000, nospam said:

> In article <i2hovjF1nhmU1@mid.individual.net>, Athel Cornish-Bowden
> <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
> 
>> My wife wants me to install Zoom in her computer (MacBook Air, several
>> years old; OS 10.8.5). Unfortunately she doesn't have any idea what her
>> system password is -- indeed, she didn't know she even had a system
>> password. Is there any way to find out? With the Terminal perhaps? I
>> expect Lewis will know if there is an answer -- anyone else?
> 
> no. that would be a huge security hole. however you can reset the
> password to something new.
> 
> keep in mind that the keychain password will not be reset, which will
> likely cause various problems going forward because they're now
> different.
> 
> you could just keep trying to guess what it is.

At about the 15th guess (a few minutes ago) it worked! So that 
immediate problem is solved.
> 
> better yet, do not use zoom at all. it's a *huge* security disaster and
> its use has been banned or restricted by many, many entities, including
> the united states senate, new york public schools, apple, google, nasa,
> space-x, germany, singapore, taiwan and many more.

That would be my choice too, but unfortunately the meeting she wants to 
attend is a Zoom meeting, set by the organizer with no alternative.


-- 
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years

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#135484

On 2020-11-29 15:15:14 +0000, Athel Cornish-Bowden said:
> On 2020-11-29 14:57:41 +0000, nospam said:
>> In article <i2hovjF1nhmU1@mid.individual.net>, Athel Cornish-Bowden
>> <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
>> 
<snip>
>> better yet, do not use zoom at all. it's a *huge* security disaster and
>> its use has been banned or restricted by many, many entities, including
>> the united states senate, new york public schools, apple, google, nasa,
>> space-x, germany, singapore, taiwan and many more.
> 
> That would be my choice too, but unfortunately the meeting she wants to 
> attend is a Zoom meeting, set by the organizer with no alternative.

You could use Zoom within a virtualised version of macOS with VMWare 
Fusion's free "Player", if you have enough drive space to use two OSes. 
If something goes wrong, it will only be that virtualised OS that gets 
mucked up.

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#135489

In message <291120200957413493%nospam@nospam.invalid> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> better yet, do not use zoom at all. it's a *huge* security disaster and

It WAS. It's security is fine now.

-- 
but then a lot of nice things turn bad out there

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#135492

In article <slrnrs82jl.v8c.g.kreme@claragold.local>, Lewis
<g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

> > better yet, do not use zoom at all. it's a *huge* security disaster and
> 
> It WAS. It's security is fine now.

they've addressed some of the issues, but it's still the same sleazy
company who continues to make false claims.

there are numerous other video conferencing systems available.

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#135501

On 2020-11-29 1:04 p.m., nospam wrote:
> In article <slrnrs82jl.v8c.g.kreme@claragold.local>, Lewis
> <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:
> 
>>> better yet, do not use zoom at all. it's a *huge* security disaster and
>>
>> It WAS. It's security is fine now.
> 
> they've addressed some of the issues, but it's still the same sleazy
> company who continues to make false claims.
> 
> there are numerous other video conferencing systems available.
> 

None of which matters if the organizer of a meeting you need to attend 
is set on using Zoom.

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#135528

On 2020-11-29 21:43:21 +0000, Alan Baker said:

> On 2020-11-29 1:04 p.m., nospam wrote:
>> In article <slrnrs82jl.v8c.g.kreme@claragold.local>, Lewis
>> <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:
>> 
>>>> better yet, do not use zoom at all. it's a *huge* security disaster and
>>> 
>>> It WAS. It's security is fine now.
>> 
>> they've addressed some of the issues, but it's still the same sleazy
>> company who continues to make false claims.
>> 
>> there are numerous other video conferencing systems available.
>> 
> 
> None of which matters if the organizer of a meeting you need to attend 
> is set on using Zoom.

Exactly. The humble participant has no choice but to use the system 
chosen by the organizer.


-- 
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years

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#135530 — Zoom (Was: Re: System password)

On 30. Nov 2020 at 09:31:21 CET, "Athel Cornish-Bowden"
<acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:

> Exactly. The humble participant has no choice but to use the system 
> chosen by the organizer.

But the humble participant does not have to install Zoom to attend.

It is well hidden on the invitation page, but you can join a Zoom metting
with a web browser.
(Done that several times myself. Works, although unfortunately without a
"tiles" view.)

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#135536 — Re: Zoom (Was: Re: System password)

In message <i2jvh9FehvnU1@mid.individual.net> Bernd Froehlich <befr@eaglesoft.de> wrote:
> On 30. Nov 2020 at 09:31:21 CET, "Athel Cornish-Bowden"
> <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:

>> Exactly. The humble participant has no choice but to use the system 
>> chosen by the organizer.

> But the humble participant does not have to install Zoom to attend.

> It is well hidden on the invitation page, but you can join a Zoom metting
> with a web browser.

It is not hidden at all.

When I click an invite to Zoom (as I do at least once a month) it opens
a webpage with two options. "Join meeting" and "open Zoom on this
computer" (or words along those lines).

-- 
Grow a pair of tits, Coldwater.

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#135556 — Re: Zoom (Was: Re: System password)

On 30. Nov 2020 at 14:24:16 CET, "Lewis" <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me>
wrote:

> When I click an invite to Zoom (as I do at least once a month) it opens
> a webpage with two options. "Join meeting" and "open Zoom on this
> computer" (or words along those lines).

Yes, but when I had my last meeting "Join meeting / Install Zoom" was a
huuuge button and "open in browser" was a 7 pt text in grey on white (or
something like that).

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#135558 — Re: Zoom (Was: Re: System password)

In message <i2ma5jFsegbU1@mid.individual.net> Bernd Froehlich <befr@eaglesoft.de> wrote:
> On 30. Nov 2020 at 14:24:16 CET, "Lewis" <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me>
> wrote:

>> When I click an invite to Zoom (as I do at least once a month) it opens
>> a webpage with two options. "Join meeting" and "open Zoom on this
>> computer" (or words along those lines).

> Yes, but when I had my last meeting "Join meeting / Install Zoom" was a
> huuuge button and "open in browser" was a 7 pt text in grey on white (or
> something like that).

That is not at all what it looks like on my machine.

<https://imgur.com/gallery/OumhmRZ>


-- 
Not that I condone fascism, or any -ism for that matter. -Ism's in my
	opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an -ism, he
	should believe in himself. I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe
	in The Beatles, I just believe in me." Good point there. After
	all, he was The Walrus. I could be The Walrus and I'd still have
	to bum rides off of people.

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#135505

In message <291120201604577242%nospam@nospam.invalid> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <slrnrs82jl.v8c.g.kreme@claragold.local>, Lewis
> <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

>> > better yet, do not use zoom at all. it's a *huge* security disaster and
>> 
>> It WAS. It's security is fine now.

> they've addressed some of the issues,

Pretty much all.

> but it's still the same sleazy company who continues to make false
> claims.

They have worked very hard to correct their mistakes very quickly and
have hired some good people. In a few months they had a much more secure
platform, and they continue to improve on it. Most companies in these
situations have doubled down on stupidity and claimed for years there
was no problem, so I give them some credit for moving fast and taking it
seriously.

> there are numerous other video conferencing systems available.

And when you are the person who is creating a meeting or conference, you
are free to choose whatever software you want.

If you want to join a Zoom call you use Zoom or you do not join the
call.


-- 
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
(sung) "I think so, Brain, but just how will we get the weasel to
	hold still?"

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#135497

On 2020-11-29 15:54, Lewis wrote:
> In message <291120200957413493%nospam@nospam.invalid> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> better yet, do not use zoom at all. it's a *huge* security disaster and
> 
> It WAS. It's security is fine now.

The possibility that behind the scenes China (state actor) can't 
eavesdrop has not been resolved (to my knowledge).

I was on a business call the other day, the other person arranged it. 
Zoom.  We were both working from Macs and could have used Facetime.

Though I did have a simple powerpoint up and Zoom did that very well 
(screen sharing).

I wouldn't use it for anything very confidential or higher.

-- 
"...there are many humorous things in this world; among them the white
  man's notion that he is less savage than the other savages."
                                             -Samuel Clemens

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#135488

In message <i2hovjF1nhmU1@mid.individual.net> Athel Cornish-Bowden <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
> My wife wants me to install Zoom in her computer (MacBook Air, several 
> years old; OS 10.8.5). Unfortunately she doesn't have any idea what her 
> system password is -- indeed, she didn't know she even had a system 
> password. Is there any way to find out? With the Terminal perhaps? I 
> expect Lewis will know if there is an answer -- anyone else?

There is no way to recover a lost password. You will need to boot into
recovery mode and reset the password.

In recovery mode, either run the terminal from the utilities menu and
type "reset password' (or it might be resetpassword"). That will allow
you to reset the password for the admin account even if you do not know
it.

It may be that 10.8 is old enough that instead there is a "Password
Reset Utility" (or some such) in the Apple menu in recovery mode.

Then, once that is done, I recommend that you immediately create an
admin account that you know the password to that you use as your
emergency admin account.

I do not know if Zoom will install on a 10.8 Mac, but Zoom can be used
via a web browser without installing anything (assuming it runs at all
on an 8yo OS and a how old computer?)

-- 
the first man to hear the voice of Om, and who gave Om his view of
	humans, was a shepherd and not a goatherd. They have quite
	different ways of looking at the world, and the whole of history
	might have been different. For sheep are stupid and have to be
	driven. But goats are intelligent and have to be led. (Small
	Gods)

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#135500

On 2020-11-29 6:19 a.m., Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> My wife wants me to install Zoom in her computer (MacBook Air, several 
> years old; OS 10.8.5). Unfortunately she doesn't have any idea what her 
> system password is -- indeed, she didn't know she even had a system 
> password. Is there any way to find out? With the Terminal perhaps? I 
> expect Lewis will know if there is an answer -- anyone else?

She's never had to log in to the machine? Ever?

Because the "system password" being requested is just the name and 
password of a user account with administrator privileges.

Furthermore, if she has forgotten her password, you could try this:

use Single User Mode and use command line tools to directly create a new 
user and make it a member of administrator group:

 From Stack Exchange:

<quote>
First you boot in Single User Mode (Cmd-S at boot). When the system 
boots up and prompt #root is displayed type following commands:


/sbin/mount -uw /

launchctl load /System/Library/LaunchDaemons/com.apple.opendirectoryd.plist

dscl . -create /Users/joeadmin

dscl . -create /Users/joeadmin UserShell /bin/bash

dscl . -create /Users/joeadmin RealName "Joe Admin"

dscl . -create /Users/joeadmin UniqueID "510"

dscl . -create /Users/joeadmin PrimaryGroupID 20

dscl . -create /Users/joeadmin NFSHomeDirectory /Users/joeadmin

dscl . -passwd /Users/joeadmin password

dscl . -append /Groups/admin GroupMembership joeadmin

dseditgroup -o edit -a joeadmin -t user admin

exit

This will create an account "joeadmin", account ID 510, with password 
"password" which will be an administrator.
</quote>

<https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/164331/i-dont-have-administrator-account-on-my-mac>

The advantage of this is that you can create another account with 
administrator privileges without changing your wife's password (which 
would cause her keychain to be locked; losing all the passwords they 
usually contain).

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#135508

In message <rq14k9$69p$1@dont-email.me> Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
> On 2020-11-29 6:19 a.m., Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> My wife wants me to install Zoom in her computer (MacBook Air, several 
>> years old; OS 10.8.5). Unfortunately she doesn't have any idea what her 
>> system password is -- indeed, she didn't know she even had a system 
>> password. Is there any way to find out? With the Terminal perhaps? I 
>> expect Lewis will know if there is an answer -- anyone else?

> She's never had to log in to the machine? Ever?

> Because the "system password" being requested is just the name and 
> password of a user account with administrator privileges.

> Furthermore, if she has forgotten her password, you could try this:

> use Single User Mode and use command line tools to directly create a new 
> user and make it a member of administrator group:

>  From Stack Exchange:

> <quote>
> First you boot in Single User Mode (Cmd-S at boot). When the system 
> boots up and prompt #root is displayed type following commands:

this is not the way. reset the password as I outlined in another post.
While this multi-step process will work if you get it right, it might
fail spectacularly if you get it even a tiny bit wrong.

> The advantage of this is that you can create another account with 
> administrator privileges without changing your wife's password (which 
> would cause her keychain to be locked; losing all the passwords they 
> usually contain).

If she doesn't know her password, she can’t have added very much to her
keychain.

-- 
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
Pinky: (talking to his reflection in the mirror) Pinky, are you
	pondering what I'm pondering?
Pinky's Reflection: Why, yes,
	Pinky! Yes, I am! But where would you get a chicken, 20 yards of
	spandex and smelling salts at this hour?

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#135509

On 2020-11-29 2:35 p.m., Lewis wrote:
> In message <rq14k9$69p$1@dont-email.me> Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>> On 2020-11-29 6:19 a.m., Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>> My wife wants me to install Zoom in her computer (MacBook Air, several
>>> years old; OS 10.8.5). Unfortunately she doesn't have any idea what her
>>> system password is -- indeed, she didn't know she even had a system
>>> password. Is there any way to find out? With the Terminal perhaps? I
>>> expect Lewis will know if there is an answer -- anyone else?
> 
>> She's never had to log in to the machine? Ever?
> 
>> Because the "system password" being requested is just the name and
>> password of a user account with administrator privileges.
> 
>> Furthermore, if she has forgotten her password, you could try this:
> 
>> use Single User Mode and use command line tools to directly create a new
>> user and make it a member of administrator group:
> 
>>   From Stack Exchange:
> 
>> <quote>
>> First you boot in Single User Mode (Cmd-S at boot). When the system
>> boots up and prompt #root is displayed type following commands:
> 
> this is not the way. reset the password as I outlined in another post.
> While this multi-step process will work if you get it right, it might
> fail spectacularly if you get it even a tiny bit wrong.

1. Resetting the passwords results in the login keychain being lost.

2. You don't know the technical ability of the person asking.

3. It MIGHT fail spectacularly... ...but it will probably fail benignly.

> 
>> The advantage of this is that you can create another account with
>> administrator privileges without changing your wife's password (which
>> would cause her keychain to be locked; losing all the passwords they
>> usually contain).
> 
> If she doesn't know her password, she can’t have added very much to her
> keychain.

Completely wrong.

In a normal Mac user set up, you never need to use your password to 
either add items to the keychain or to use them.

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#135517

In message <rq1804$q63$1@dont-email.me> Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
> On 2020-11-29 2:35 p.m., Lewis wrote:
>> In message <rq14k9$69p$1@dont-email.me> Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>>> On 2020-11-29 6:19 a.m., Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>> My wife wants me to install Zoom in her computer (MacBook Air, several
>>>> years old; OS 10.8.5). Unfortunately she doesn't have any idea what her
>>>> system password is -- indeed, she didn't know she even had a system
>>>> password. Is there any way to find out? With the Terminal perhaps? I
>>>> expect Lewis will know if there is an answer -- anyone else?
>> 
>>> She's never had to log in to the machine? Ever?
>> 
>>> Because the "system password" being requested is just the name and
>>> password of a user account with administrator privileges.
>> 
>>> Furthermore, if she has forgotten her password, you could try this:
>> 
>>> use Single User Mode and use command line tools to directly create a new
>>> user and make it a member of administrator group:
>> 
>>>   From Stack Exchange:
>> 
>>> <quote>
>>> First you boot in Single User Mode (Cmd-S at boot). When the system
>>> boots up and prompt #root is displayed type following commands:
>> 
>> this is not the way. reset the password as I outlined in another post.
>> While this multi-step process will work if you get it right, it might
>> fail spectacularly if you get it even a tiny bit wrong.

> 1. Resetting the passwords results in the login keychain being lost.

Yep. And if you cannot remember the user's password you will lose the
keychain anyway, right?

> 2. You don't know the technical ability of the person asking.

I can guess based on not knowing how to reset the admin password in
the first place.

> 3. It MIGHT fail spectacularly... ...but it will probably fail benignly.

Depends on exactly how careful you are when typing.


>> If she doesn't know her password, she can’t have added very much to her
>> keychain.

> Completely wrong.

Entirely right.

> In a normal Mac user set up, you never need to use your password to 
> either add items to the keychain or to use them.

How amusing. I was JUST asked to add a password to my keychain a few
minutes ago.

-- 
Reality is a curve. That's not the problem. The problem is that there
	isn't as much as there should be. According to some of the more
	mystical texts in the stacks of the library of Unseen University
	- (...) - at least nine-tenths of all the original reality ever
	created lies outside the multiverse, and since the multiverse by
	definition includes absolutely everything that is anything, this
	puts a bit of a strain on things. --Moving Pictures

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#135527

On 2020-11-29 9:06 p.m., Lewis wrote:
> In message <rq1804$q63$1@dont-email.me> Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>> On 2020-11-29 2:35 p.m., Lewis wrote:
>>> In message <rq14k9$69p$1@dont-email.me> Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>>>> On 2020-11-29 6:19 a.m., Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>>> My wife wants me to install Zoom in her computer (MacBook Air, several
>>>>> years old; OS 10.8.5). Unfortunately she doesn't have any idea what her
>>>>> system password is -- indeed, she didn't know she even had a system
>>>>> password. Is there any way to find out? With the Terminal perhaps? I
>>>>> expect Lewis will know if there is an answer -- anyone else?
>>>
>>>> She's never had to log in to the machine? Ever?
>>>
>>>> Because the "system password" being requested is just the name and
>>>> password of a user account with administrator privileges.
>>>
>>>> Furthermore, if she has forgotten her password, you could try this:
>>>
>>>> use Single User Mode and use command line tools to directly create a new
>>>> user and make it a member of administrator group:
>>>
>>>>    From Stack Exchange:
>>>
>>>> <quote>
>>>> First you boot in Single User Mode (Cmd-S at boot). When the system
>>>> boots up and prompt #root is displayed type following commands:
>>>
>>> this is not the way. reset the password as I outlined in another post.
>>> While this multi-step process will work if you get it right, it might
>>> fail spectacularly if you get it even a tiny bit wrong.
> 
>> 1. Resetting the passwords results in the login keychain being lost.
> 
> Yep. And if you cannot remember the user's password you will lose the
> keychain anyway, right?

Not if you create a new user to do admin tasks and go right on with 
automatic login for the original account.

> 
>> 2. You don't know the technical ability of the person asking.
> 
> I can guess based on not knowing how to reset the admin password in
> the first place.

Not knowing how best to do a particular task on a system that he may not 
use very much doesn't equate to not being able to understand how to use 
a command line. His initial request implies he has a familiarity with 
command line use.

> 
>> 3. It MIGHT fail spectacularly... ...but it will probably fail benignly.
> 
> Depends on exactly how careful you are when typing.
> 

Give an example of a typing mistake that could turn that sequence of 
commands into something catastrophic...

> 
>>> If she doesn't know her password, she can’t have added very much to her
>>> keychain.
> 
>> Completely wrong.
> 
> Entirely right.

Nope.

> 
>> In a normal Mac user set up, you never need to use your password to
>> either add items to the keychain or to use them.
> 
> How amusing. I was JUST asked to add a password to my keychain a few
> minutes ago.

But were you asked to provide YOUR password FOR THE KEYCHAIN ITSELF in 
order to do that?

The normal answer to that question is "no".

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