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WiFi problem

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  WiFi problem isw <isw@witzend.com> - 2017-03-13 18:32 -0700
    Re: WiFi problem befr@eaglesoft.de (Bernd Fröhlich) - 2017-03-14 09:39 +0100
      Re: WiFi problem isw <isw@witzend.com> - 2017-03-14 13:13 -0700
        Re: WiFi problem befr@eaglesoft.de (Bernd Fröhlich) - 2017-03-15 09:48 +0100
          Re: WiFi problem isw <isw@witzend.com> - 2017-03-15 09:40 -0700
    Re: WiFi problem Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2017-03-14 10:00 -0400
      Re: WiFi problem isw <isw@witzend.com> - 2017-03-14 13:10 -0700
        Re: WiFi problem Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2017-03-14 16:22 -0400
        Re: WiFi problem Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2017-03-14 17:34 -0400
          Re: WiFi problem isw <isw@witzend.com> - 2017-03-14 20:56 -0700
            Re: WiFi problem Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2017-03-15 20:22 -0400
              Re: WiFi problem isw <isw@witzend.com> - 2017-03-15 22:01 -0700
      Re: WiFi problem Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> - 2017-03-14 18:55 -0400
        Re: WiFi problem nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-14 19:28 -0400
        Re: WiFi problem Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2017-03-14 19:41 -0400
    Re: WiFi problem Electric Comet <electric-comet@mail.invalid> - 2017-03-14 13:52 -0700
      Re: WiFi problem isw <isw@witzend.com> - 2017-03-14 21:16 -0700
        Re: WiFi problem Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-03-15 15:51 +0000
    Re: WiFi problem dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2017-03-15 13:21 +1300
      Re: WiFi problem isw <isw@witzend.com> - 2017-03-14 21:07 -0700
    Re: WiFi problem "John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net> - 2017-03-15 01:54 +0000
      Re: WiFi problem isw <isw@witzend.com> - 2017-03-14 21:03 -0700
        Re: WiFi problem nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-15 00:06 -0400
          Re: WiFi problem isw <isw@witzend.com> - 2017-03-15 09:39 -0700
            Re: WiFi problem nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-15 12:45 -0400
              Re: WiFi problem isw <isw@witzend.com> - 2017-03-15 22:01 -0700
                Re: WiFi problem nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-16 03:03 -0400
                  Re: WiFi problem isw <isw@witzend.com> - 2017-03-16 14:30 -0700
                    Re: WiFi problem nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-16 18:48 -0400
                      Re: WiFi problem isw <isw@witzend.com> - 2017-03-16 21:13 -0700
                        Re: WiFi problem nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-17 00:32 -0400
            Re: WiFi problem Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-03-18 14:58 +0000
              Re: WiFi problem isw <isw@witzend.com> - 2017-03-18 11:51 -0700
                Re: WiFi problem Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-03-19 16:56 +0000

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#102285 — WiFi problem

We have a small LAN, with a couple of hard-wired clients, and about four 
that that use WiFi. The "hub" is an ATT high-speed DSL modem/router.

For the most part, everything works fine, but my son's MacBook (a core 
duo) occasionally gets into a state where he can't log on to the 
network. It *might* be more common after he's been somewhere and logged 
on to another LAN, but I can't say for sure.

He can see the LAN fine, but things go wonky when he tries to log in: 
He'll get a self-assigned IP, or he'll get an assignment which only 
sticks for a couple seconds and then vanishes, or the router just seems 
to not respond.

He knows about computers -- does a bit of consulting from time to time 
-- but he is from the "just get the client to quit complaining" school 
of service, rather then the less common "find and fix the real issue" 
school, which I favor.

That means that when the issue shows up he has absolutely no interest in 
troubleshooting anything. He has found that rebooting the modem/router 
will "fix" his problem, and he goes for that every time, despite the 
fact that every other client on the LAN is doing just fine.

Because it works (usually), he has convinced himself that the problem is 
with the router, so he sees no reason to look into whether it might 
possibly be his Mac. At his insistence, the modem/router has been 
replaced twice; nothing changed, but that didn't make him doubt his 
conclusion -- it just convinced him that "all routers are junk".

So is he right, that this is a router issue which pops up and for which 
there is no other fix than a router restart? Or is it a known issue of 
Mac networking which he (and I) simply do not know how to address?

If someone can offer an absolutely iron-clad way for a Mac to log on to 
a LAN, I'd sure appreciate knowing about it. Maybe what he is doing now 
omits some (only rarely mandatory) step that usually doesn't matter.

Isaac

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#102291

isw <isw@witzend.com> wrote:

> He can see the LAN fine, but things go wonky when he tries to log in:
> He'll get a self-assigned IP, or he'll get an assignment which only 
> sticks for a couple seconds and then vanishes, or the router just seems
> to not respond.

I had a similar problem once.
Turned out that the router was set up to just accept 3 DHCP-devices, so
when a 4th device tried to connect it would not get an address.

So I suggest having a look at the DHCP-configuration of that router.

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#102315

In article <1n2ven4.1cjqxym1dmz7iwN%befr@eaglesoft.de>,
 befr@eaglesoft.de (Bernd Fröhlich) wrote:

> isw <isw@witzend.com> wrote:
> 
> > He can see the LAN fine, but things go wonky when he tries to log in:
> > He'll get a self-assigned IP, or he'll get an assignment which only 
> > sticks for a couple seconds and then vanishes, or the router just seems
> > to not respond.
> 
> I had a similar problem once.
> Turned out that the router was set up to just accept 3 DHCP-devices, so
> when a 4th device tried to connect it would not get an address.
> 
> So I suggest having a look at the DHCP-configuration of that router.

Good point, but since we have guests and relatives who want to use the 
network, I have set a DHCP range considerably greater than we will ever 
need (I just checked again to make sure). None of them ever have a 
problem finding the LAN and logging on, either.

Isaac

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#102355

isw <isw@witzend.com> wrote:

> Good point, but since we have guests and relatives who want to use the
> network, I have set a DHCP range considerably greater than we will ever
> need (I just checked again to make sure). None of them ever have a 
> problem finding the LAN and logging on, either.

OK, next try:
The next time it doesn´t work try to give the computer a manually
assigned IP-Address outside the DHCP-range and see if that works.
(Don´t forget to manually assign the router IP and DNS-servers too.) 

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#102375

In article <1n2x9so.zqd5021kp6gq8N%befr@eaglesoft.de>,
 befr@eaglesoft.de (Bernd Fröhlich) wrote:

> isw <isw@witzend.com> wrote:
> 
> > Good point, but since we have guests and relatives who want to use the
> > network, I have set a DHCP range considerably greater than we will ever
> > need (I just checked again to make sure). None of them ever have a 
> > problem finding the LAN and logging on, either.
> 
> OK, next try:
> The next time it doesn´t work try to give the computer a manually
> assigned IP-Address outside the DHCP-range and see if that works.
> (Don´t forget to manually assign the router IP and DNS-servers too.) 

I'm pretty sure he tried that, but I'll be sure to ask next time. He's 
certainly aware of DHCP and DNS setup issues.

Isaac

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#102299

On 2017-03-13 21:32, isw wrote:
> We have a small LAN, with a couple of hard-wired clients, and about four
> that that use WiFi. The "hub" is an ATT high-speed DSL modem/router.

Never use an ISP supplied router/WiFi.  They have hooks into it and 
configure for their taste, not yours.

In the network options, advanced, he could re-order the list of known 
WiFi's so that the AT&T router is near the top.  Might help.

He could make the option: "Ask to join new networks" active to see if it 
resolves the issue (this as a test).  And then once successful, turn the 
option back off.  This might clear it up for the future.

Also turn on the "Remember networks this computer has joined" option 
under Advanced/WiFi.

I have no issues on any Macs connecting to several routers - and hopping 
between them and "outside" WiFi's (on the road..) - this is why I'm more 
suspicious of the ISP supplied router than the Mac.

-- 
"If war is God's way of teaching Americans geography, then
recession is His way of teaching everyone a little economics."
   ..Raj Patel, The Value of Nothing.

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#102314

In article <KcGdnUuBM9z_alrFnZ2dnUU7-TnNnZ2d@giganews.com>,
 Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:

> On 2017-03-13 21:32, isw wrote:
> > We have a small LAN, with a couple of hard-wired clients, and about four
> > that that use WiFi. The "hub" is an ATT high-speed DSL modem/router.
> 
> Never use an ISP supplied router/WiFi.  They have hooks into it and 
> configure for their taste, not yours.
> 
> In the network options, advanced, he could re-order the list of known 
> WiFi's so that the AT&T router is near the top.  Might help.
> 
> He could make the option: "Ask to join new networks" active to see if it 
> resolves the issue (this as a test).  And then once successful, turn the 
> option back off.  This might clear it up for the future.
> 
> Also turn on the "Remember networks this computer has joined" option 
> under Advanced/WiFi.
> 
> I have no issues on any Macs connecting to several routers - and hopping 
> between them and "outside" WiFi's (on the road..) - this is why I'm more 
> suspicious of the ISP supplied router than the Mac.

Can you explain how it can be the router, when his Mac is the only 
device that has a problem, while my Android, my wife's Mac, and my son's 
iPhone never have any issue?

Isaac

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#102316

In article <isw-959365.13101214032017@news-roam.garlic.com>,
 isw <isw@witzend.com> wrote:

> In article <KcGdnUuBM9z_alrFnZ2dnUU7-TnNnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>  Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
> 
> > On 2017-03-13 21:32, isw wrote:
> > > We have a small LAN, with a couple of hard-wired clients, and about four
> > > that that use WiFi. The "hub" is an ATT high-speed DSL modem/router.
> > 
> > Never use an ISP supplied router/WiFi.  They have hooks into it and 
> > configure for their taste, not yours.
> > 
> > In the network options, advanced, he could re-order the list of known 
> > WiFi's so that the AT&T router is near the top.  Might help.
> > 
> > He could make the option: "Ask to join new networks" active to see if it 
> > resolves the issue (this as a test).  And then once successful, turn the 
> > option back off.  This might clear it up for the future.
> > 
> > Also turn on the "Remember networks this computer has joined" option 
> > under Advanced/WiFi.
> > 
> > I have no issues on any Macs connecting to several routers - and hopping 
> > between them and "outside" WiFi's (on the road..) - this is why I'm more 
> > suspicious of the ISP supplied router than the Mac.
> 
> Can you explain how it can be the router, when his Mac is the only 
> device that has a problem, while my Android, my wife's Mac, and my son's 
> iPhone never have any issue?

Some routers are just more finicky than others. It might have some 
compatibility issue with the specific model of Airport card in your iMac.

But there's also a good chance that your iMac has a flaky Airport card.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

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#102322

On 2017-03-14 16:10, isw wrote:
> In article <KcGdnUuBM9z_alrFnZ2dnUU7-TnNnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>  Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 2017-03-13 21:32, isw wrote:
>>> We have a small LAN, with a couple of hard-wired clients, and about four
>>> that that use WiFi. The "hub" is an ATT high-speed DSL modem/router.
>>
>> Never use an ISP supplied router/WiFi.  They have hooks into it and
>> configure for their taste, not yours.
>>
>> In the network options, advanced, he could re-order the list of known
>> WiFi's so that the AT&T router is near the top.  Might help.
>>
>> He could make the option: "Ask to join new networks" active to see if it
>> resolves the issue (this as a test).  And then once successful, turn the
>> option back off.  This might clear it up for the future.
>>
>> Also turn on the "Remember networks this computer has joined" option
>> under Advanced/WiFi.
>>
>> I have no issues on any Macs connecting to several routers - and hopping
>> between them and "outside" WiFi's (on the road..) - this is why I'm more
>> suspicious of the ISP supplied router than the Mac.
>
> Can you explain how it can be the router, when his Mac is the only
> device that has a problem, while my Android, my wife's Mac, and my son's
> iPhone never have any issue?

Ya never know.  OTOH, did he try the other things I mentioned?


-- 
"If war is God's way of teaching Americans geography, then
recession is His way of teaching everyone a little economics."
   ..Raj Patel, The Value of Nothing.

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#102343

In article <Mu-dnc5HOcdt_FXFnZ2dnUU7-VWdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
 Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:

> On 2017-03-14 16:10, isw wrote:
> > In article <KcGdnUuBM9z_alrFnZ2dnUU7-TnNnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> >  Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2017-03-13 21:32, isw wrote:
> >>> We have a small LAN, with a couple of hard-wired clients, and about four
> >>> that that use WiFi. The "hub" is an ATT high-speed DSL modem/router.
> >>
> >> Never use an ISP supplied router/WiFi.  They have hooks into it and
> >> configure for their taste, not yours.
> >>
> >> In the network options, advanced, he could re-order the list of known
> >> WiFi's so that the AT&T router is near the top.  Might help.
> >>
> >> He could make the option: "Ask to join new networks" active to see if it
> >> resolves the issue (this as a test).  And then once successful, turn the
> >> option back off.  This might clear it up for the future.
> >>
> >> Also turn on the "Remember networks this computer has joined" option
> >> under Advanced/WiFi.
> >>
> >> I have no issues on any Macs connecting to several routers - and hopping
> >> between them and "outside" WiFi's (on the road..) - this is why I'm more
> >> suspicious of the ISP supplied router than the Mac.
> >
> > Can you explain how it can be the router, when his Mac is the only
> > device that has a problem, while my Android, my wife's Mac, and my son's
> > iPhone never have any issue?
> 
> Ya never know.  OTOH, did he try the other things I mentioned?

He's big on "If it ain't broke ..." and right now it's not. I will try 
to mention some of those things next time.

Isaac

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#102399

On 2017-03-14 23:56, isw wrote:
> In article <Mu-dnc5HOcdt_FXFnZ2dnUU7-VWdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>  Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 2017-03-14 16:10, isw wrote:
>>> In article <KcGdnUuBM9z_alrFnZ2dnUU7-TnNnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>>>  Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2017-03-13 21:32, isw wrote:
>>>>> We have a small LAN, with a couple of hard-wired clients, and about four
>>>>> that that use WiFi. The "hub" is an ATT high-speed DSL modem/router.
>>>>
>>>> Never use an ISP supplied router/WiFi.  They have hooks into it and
>>>> configure for their taste, not yours.
>>>>
>>>> In the network options, advanced, he could re-order the list of known
>>>> WiFi's so that the AT&T router is near the top.  Might help.
>>>>
>>>> He could make the option: "Ask to join new networks" active to see if it
>>>> resolves the issue (this as a test).  And then once successful, turn the
>>>> option back off.  This might clear it up for the future.
>>>>
>>>> Also turn on the "Remember networks this computer has joined" option
>>>> under Advanced/WiFi.
>>>>
>>>> I have no issues on any Macs connecting to several routers - and hopping
>>>> between them and "outside" WiFi's (on the road..) - this is why I'm more
>>>> suspicious of the ISP supplied router than the Mac.
>>>
>>> Can you explain how it can be the router, when his Mac is the only
>>> device that has a problem, while my Android, my wife's Mac, and my son's
>>> iPhone never have any issue?
>>
>> Ya never know.  OTOH, did he try the other things I mentioned?
>
> He's big on "If it ain't broke ..." and right now it's not. I will try
> to mention some of those things next time.

Me too.  But if he's having issues then something is broke.  Better to 
start trying things.


-- 
"If war is God's way of teaching Americans geography, then
recession is His way of teaching everyone a little economics."
   ..Raj Patel, The Value of Nothing.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#102402

In article <MvidnfirG9tMR1TFnZ2dnUU7-UudnZ2d@giganews.com>,
 Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:

> On 2017-03-14 23:56, isw wrote:
> > In article <Mu-dnc5HOcdt_FXFnZ2dnUU7-VWdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> >  Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2017-03-14 16:10, isw wrote:
> >>> In article <KcGdnUuBM9z_alrFnZ2dnUU7-TnNnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> >>>  Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 2017-03-13 21:32, isw wrote:
> >>>>> We have a small LAN, with a couple of hard-wired clients, and about four
> >>>>> that that use WiFi. The "hub" is an ATT high-speed DSL modem/router.
> >>>>
> >>>> Never use an ISP supplied router/WiFi.  They have hooks into it and
> >>>> configure for their taste, not yours.
> >>>>
> >>>> In the network options, advanced, he could re-order the list of known
> >>>> WiFi's so that the AT&T router is near the top.  Might help.
> >>>>
> >>>> He could make the option: "Ask to join new networks" active to see if it
> >>>> resolves the issue (this as a test).  And then once successful, turn the
> >>>> option back off.  This might clear it up for the future.
> >>>>
> >>>> Also turn on the "Remember networks this computer has joined" option
> >>>> under Advanced/WiFi.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have no issues on any Macs connecting to several routers - and hopping
> >>>> between them and "outside" WiFi's (on the road..) - this is why I'm more
> >>>> suspicious of the ISP supplied router than the Mac.
> >>>
> >>> Can you explain how it can be the router, when his Mac is the only
> >>> device that has a problem, while my Android, my wife's Mac, and my son's
> >>> iPhone never have any issue?
> >>
> >> Ya never know.  OTOH, did he try the other things I mentioned?
> >
> > He's big on "If it ain't broke ..." and right now it's not. I will try
> > to mention some of those things next time.
> 
> Me too.  But if he's having issues then something is broke.  Better to 
> start trying things.

Oh, I agree, but he is still a grasshopper ...

Isaac

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#102333

On 3/14/17 10:00 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2017-03-13 21:32, isw wrote:
>> We have a small LAN, with a couple of hard-wired clients, and about four
>> that that use WiFi. The "hub" is an ATT high-speed DSL modem/router.
>
> Never use an ISP supplied router/WiFi.  They have hooks into it and
> configure for their taste, not yours.
>


Ummmm, why not use theirs?

No idea what you mean by "hooks" and why they're bad. And if the ISP's 
configuration works for me, who cares who put it there...

-- 
The road ahead is going to be tough for Mr. Trump, what with his lack of 
community organizing experience.
						- @patsajak

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#102334

In article <oa9sce$spg$1@news.albasani.net>, Wade Garrett
<wade@cooler.net> wrote:

> >> We have a small LAN, with a couple of hard-wired clients, and about four
> >> that that use WiFi. The "hub" is an ATT high-speed DSL modem/router.
> >
> > Never use an ISP supplied router/WiFi.  They have hooks into it and
> > configure for their taste, not yours.
> 
> 
> Ummmm, why not use theirs?

because of said hooks.

> No idea what you mean by "hooks" and why they're bad. 

it means ways to access the router from the outside, allowing isp to
update it on the fly or to offer tech support remotely. for the latter,
they will want to see your configuration without having to deal with
people who don't even know what a router is.

if you know a verizon customer, just have them install and launch the
verizon app. it will show their wifi ssid and password in clear easy to
read text. 

> And if the ISP's 
> configuration works for me, who cares who put it there...

certainly not the bad guys who know how to use it too. they love it.

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#102336

On 2017-03-14 18:55, Wade Garrett wrote:
> On 3/14/17 10:00 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2017-03-13 21:32, isw wrote:
>>> We have a small LAN, with a couple of hard-wired clients, and about four
>>> that that use WiFi. The "hub" is an ATT high-speed DSL modem/router.
>>
>> Never use an ISP supplied router/WiFi.  They have hooks into it and
>> configure for their taste, not yours.
>>
>
>
> Ummmm, why not use theirs?
>
> No idea what you mean by "hooks" and why they're bad. And if the ISP's
> configuration works for me, who cares who put it there...

ISP's like these routers because they configure them for their 
convenience, not your benefit.  They can read what's going on at any 
time they like.  How "deep" that goes is hard to say.  For the little 
old lady calling support it's probably good for them.  For me, it's just 
someone peeking over my fence 24/7.

And of course once there's an outside vector in it is a vulnerability 
and we all know that major corporations never have breaches.  Right?

-- 
"If war is God's way of teaching Americans geography, then
recession is His way of teaching everyone a little economics."
   ..Raj Patel, The Value of Nothing.

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#102318

On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 18:32:47 -0700
isw <isw@witzend.com> wrote:

> For the most part, everything works fine, but my son's MacBook (a
> core duo) occasionally gets into a state where he can't log on to the 
> network. It *might* be more common after he's been somewhere and
> logged on to another LAN, but I can't say for sure.


what do the logs on the router say

i doubt the router is the complete problem but has it always been the
same model for replacements

what os 

maybe time to update

if it is an isp router you probably pay monthly so call the isp

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#102347

In article <oa9l0i$tb9$1@dont-email.me>,
 Electric Comet <electric-comet@mail.invalid> wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 18:32:47 -0700
> isw <isw@witzend.com> wrote:
> 
> > For the most part, everything works fine, but my son's MacBook (a
> > core duo) occasionally gets into a state where he can't log on to the 
> > network. It *might* be more common after he's been somewhere and
> > logged on to another LAN, but I can't say for sure.
> 
> 
> what do the logs on the router say

Not a lot; they got wiped when he rebooted the router   8^[

> i doubt the router is the complete problem but has it always been the
> same model for replacements
> 
> what os 

His box runs 10.6, as does the Mini (which never has a problem).

> maybe time to update

Way too many dollars; it would take new hardware.

Isaac

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#102367

On 2017-03-15, isw <isw@witzend.com> wrote:
> In article <oa9l0i$tb9$1@dont-email.me>,
>  Electric Comet <electric-comet@mail.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 18:32:47 -0700
>> isw <isw@witzend.com> wrote:
>> 
>> > For the most part, everything works fine, but my son's MacBook (a
>> > core duo) occasionally gets into a state where he can't log on to the 
>> > network. It *might* be more common after he's been somewhere and
>> > logged on to another LAN, but I can't say for sure.
>> 
>> what do the logs on the router say
>
> Not a lot; they got wiped when he rebooted the router   8^[

Obviously you should look at the logs at the time of the problem. ; )

>> i doubt the router is the complete problem but has it always been the
>> same model for replacements
>> 
>> what os 
>
> His box runs 10.6, as does the Mini (which never has a problem).

They use different WiFi hardware though.

>> maybe time to update
>
> Way too many dollars; it would take new hardware.

Nothing worth having in life is free. : )

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#102339

isw <isw@witzend.com> wrote:

> We have a small LAN, with a couple of hard-wired clients, and about four
> that that use WiFi. The "hub" is an ATT high-speed DSL modem/router.
> 
> For the most part, everything works fine, but my son's MacBook (a core
> duo)

Is that detail right? The original model MacBook (introduced May 2006)
is the only one with a Core Duo processor (also the Early to Mid 2006
MacBook Pro, if you have been loose with the term "MacBook").

Key point where the model might be a factor: those models are limited to
802.11b/g. They don't support 802.11n, nor the 5 GHz band.

The Mac OS X version shouldn't be a factor - nothing notable in Wi-Fi
limitations for Tiger/Leopard/Snow Leopard, which is all those 2006
models can run.

> occasionally gets into a state where he can't log on to the 
> network. It *might* be more common after he's been somewhere and logged
> on to another LAN, but I can't say for sure.
> 
> He can see the LAN fine, but things go wonky when he tries to log in:
> He'll get a self-assigned IP, or he'll get an assignment which only 
> sticks for a couple seconds and then vanishes, or the router just seems
> to not respond.

It sounds like problems talking to the DHCP server in the router, but
losing the address after being assigned one is odd - I'd suspect the
computer has dropped the Wi-Fi network and then reconnected, and failed
to talk to the DHCP server the second time around.

Is this only affecting him on your Wi-Fi network? If it was also
happening elsewhere, I'd suspect faulty Wi-Fi hardware in the computer.

I assume his computer is not showing obvious error messages along the
lines of "Your address is being used by another device on the network"?

> Because it works (usually), he has convinced himself that the problem is
> with the router, so he sees no reason to look into whether it might 
> possibly be his Mac. At his insistence, the modem/router has been 
> replaced twice;

Replaced with another of the same AT&T supplied model, or changing
brand/model?

If it was a compatibility issue with the router, swapping for another
router of the same type wouldn't help.

> nothing changed, but that didn't make him doubt his 
> conclusion -- it just convinced him that "all routers are junk".
> 
> So is he right, that this is a router issue which pops up and for which
> there is no other fix than a router restart? Or is it a known issue of
> Mac networking which he (and I) simply do not know how to address?

Nothing comes to mind. Default settings just work, as long as the
network isn't using features like MAC address restrictions.

I can't think of any settings on the Mac which would cause this pattern
of behaviour.

If it isn't something like hitting a limit of addresses allocated via
DHCP (which you've already discounted), I suspect the Mac's Wi-Fi
hardware has a fault or obscure compatibility problem with the router.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#102346

In article <1n2x6jg.y8trlr1opf7iaN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>,
 dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote:

> isw <isw@witzend.com> wrote:
> 
> > We have a small LAN, with a couple of hard-wired clients, and about four
> > that that use WiFi. The "hub" is an ATT high-speed DSL modem/router.
> > 
> > For the most part, everything works fine, but my son's MacBook (a core
> > duo)
> 
> Is that detail right? The original model MacBook (introduced May 2006)
> is the only one with a Core Duo processor (also the Early to Mid 2006
> MacBook Pro, if you have been loose with the term "MacBook").

No. My mistype. It's definitely a core two duo.
> 
> Key point where the model might be a factor: those models are limited to
> 802.11b/g. They don't support 802.11n, nor the 5 GHz band.
> 
> The Mac OS X version shouldn't be a factor - nothing notable in Wi-Fi
> limitations for Tiger/Leopard/Snow Leopard, which is all those 2006
> models can run.
> 
> > occasionally gets into a state where he can't log on to the 
> > network. It *might* be more common after he's been somewhere and logged
> > on to another LAN, but I can't say for sure.
> > 
> > He can see the LAN fine, but things go wonky when he tries to log in:
> > He'll get a self-assigned IP, or he'll get an assignment which only 
> > sticks for a couple seconds and then vanishes, or the router just seems
> > to not respond.
> 
> It sounds like problems talking to the DHCP server in the router, but
> losing the address after being assigned one is odd - I'd suspect the
> computer has dropped the Wi-Fi network and then reconnected, and failed
> to talk to the DHCP server the second time around.
> 
> Is this only affecting him on your Wi-Fi network? If it was also
> happening elsewhere, I'd suspect faulty Wi-Fi hardware in the computer.

Only here, with two different iterations of the ATT router.

> 
> I assume his computer is not showing obvious error messages along the
> lines of "Your address is being used by another device on the network"?

No; there are only a few users,and a pretty large DHCP sllocation.
> 
> > Because it works (usually), he has convinced himself that the problem is
> > with the router, so he sees no reason to look into whether it might 
> > possibly be his Mac. At his insistence, the modem/router has been 
> > replaced twice;
> 
> Replaced with another of the same AT&T supplied model, or changing
> brand/model?

We're on the replacement now. The previous one was replaced at his 
insistence.

> 
> If it was a compatibility issue with the router, swapping for another
> router of the same type wouldn't help.
> 
> > nothing changed, but that didn't make him doubt his 
> > conclusion -- it just convinced him that "all routers are junk".
> > 
> > So is he right, that this is a router issue which pops up and for which
> > there is no other fix than a router restart? Or is it a known issue of
> > Mac networking which he (and I) simply do not know how to address?
> 
> Nothing comes to mind. Default settings just work, as long as the
> network isn't using features like MAC address restrictions.
> 
> I can't think of any settings on the Mac which would cause this pattern
> of behaviour.
> 
> If it isn't something like hitting a limit of addresses allocated via
> DHCP (which you've already discounted), I suspect the Mac's Wi-Fi
> hardware has a fault or obscure compatibility problem with the router.

That's my top suspicion. Maybe the ATT router is slightly more 
restrictive than some other brands ...

Isaac

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