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I Miss the Enter Key

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  I Miss the Enter Key Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> - 2017-03-09 15:27 -0500
    Re: I Miss the Enter Key Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2017-03-09 20:31 +0000
      Re: I Miss the Enter Key Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> - 2017-03-09 15:49 -0500
        Re: I Miss the Enter Key nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-09 15:54 -0500
          Re: I Miss the Enter Key Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> - 2017-03-09 16:09 -0500
            Re: I Miss the Enter Key nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-09 16:14 -0500
              Re: I Miss the Enter Key Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> - 2017-03-09 16:22 -0500
              Re: I Miss the Enter Key nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2017-03-09 14:43 -0700
        Re: I Miss the Enter Key dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2017-03-10 11:25 +1300
          Re: I Miss the Enter Key Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> - 2017-03-09 18:18 -0500
            Re: I Miss the Enter Key Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-03-09 23:33 +0000
              Re: I Miss the Enter Key Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-03-10 02:37 +0000
                Re: I Miss the Enter Key Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-03-10 14:57 +0000
              Re: I Miss the Enter Key android <here@there.was> - 2017-03-10 16:09 +0100
                Re: I Miss the Enter Key Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-03-10 15:11 +0000
                  Re: I Miss the Enter Key android <here@there.was> - 2017-03-10 16:13 +0100
                    Re: I Miss the Enter Key Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-03-10 15:15 +0000
                    Re: I Miss the Enter Key Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-03-10 15:33 +0000
                Re: I Miss the Enter Key "David B." <DavidB@nomail.afraid.invalid> - 2017-03-10 15:16 +0000
          Re: I Miss the Enter Key Fred Moore <fmoore@gfcn.huh> - 2017-03-16 16:03 -0400
            Re: I Miss the Enter Key dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2017-03-17 13:56 +1300
              Re: I Miss the Enter Key Fred Moore <fmoore@gfcn.huh> - 2017-03-18 13:38 -0400
        Re: I Miss the Enter Key Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-03-09 22:35 +0000
    Re: I Miss the Enter Key Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-03-09 22:33 +0000

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#102117 — I Miss the Enter Key

Why did they do that?  Who needs two option-alt keys?  If something 
ain't broke, why does Apple have to keep fixing it?

In case you can't tell, I am _not_ having a good day.  Harrumph!

-- 
Nelson

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#102118

In article <0001HW.D4E724DE00A457BEB02919BF@news.astraweb.com>, Nelson
<nelson@nowhere.com> wrote:

>Why did they do that?  Who needs two option-alt keys?  If something 
>ain't broke, why does Apple have to keep fixing it?

<looks at keyboard>

No, the Enter key is still there.

Did some Apple pixies break in and steal yours then?

-- 
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without 
evidence."
-- Christopher Hitchens

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#102119

On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 15:31:49 -0500, Tim Streater wrote
(in article <090320172031493078%timstreater@greenbee.net>):

> In article <0001HW.D4E724DE00A457BEB02919BF@news.astraweb.com>, Nelson
> <nelson@nowhere.com> wrote:
> 
>> Why did they do that?  Who needs two option-alt keys?  If something 
>> ain't broke, why does Apple have to keep fixing it?
> 
> <looks at keyboard>
> 
> No, the Enter key is still there.
> 
> Did some Apple pixies break in and steal yours then?

My Mac Book Pro 2009 has an Enter Key next to the command key on the 
right of the space bar.  The 2011 replaced that with another Option 
key.

I also just found out after two hours that the Install Sierra app 
updates your existing system rather than does a clean install.  I guess 
they combined the two words "update" and "install" too.  You think they 
would give you a hint. Grrrrr!

And to make an install (or is it an update) USB disk I had to create a 
root account.  Sudo doesn't work.  Have you seen the contortions you 
have to go through to create a root account?

-- 
Nelson

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#102120

In article <0001HW.D4E72A0E00A58F1BB02919BF@news.astraweb.com>, Nelson
<nelson@nowhere.com> wrote:

> > 
> >> Why did they do that?  Who needs two option-alt keys?  If something 
> >> ain't broke, why does Apple have to keep fixing it?
> > 
> > <looks at keyboard>
> > 
> > No, the Enter key is still there.
> > 
> > Did some Apple pixies break in and steal yours then?
> 
> My Mac Book Pro 2009 has an Enter Key next to the command key on the 
> right of the space bar.  The 2011 replaced that with another Option 
> key.

a second option key is *far* more useful than an enter key.

> I also just found out after two hours that the Install Sierra app 
> updates your existing system rather than does a clean install.  I guess 
> they combined the two words "update" and "install" too.  You think they 
> would give you a hint. Grrrrr!

who cares. the end result is the same.

> And to make an install (or is it an update) USB disk I had to create a 
> root account.  Sudo doesn't work.  Have you seen the contortions you 
> have to go through to create a root account?

there is *no* need to create a root account to make a usb installer.
none whatsoever.

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#102121

On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 15:54:36 -0500, nospam wrote
(in article <090320171554363943%nospam@nospam.invalid>):

>> And to make an install (or is it an update) USB disk I had to create a 
>> root account.  Sudo doesn't work.  Have you seen the contortions you 
>> have to go through to create a root account?
> 
> there is *no* need to create a root account to make a usb installer. none 
> whatsoever.

When I tried to follow these instructions:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372

the bash shell refused to execute the shell script "createinstallmedia" 
from my admin account even when I used "sudo".  It gave me the message 
"You have to be root to execute this command".

-- 
Nelson

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#102122

In article <0001HW.D4E72EB200A6A575B02919BF@news.astraweb.com>, Nelson
<nelson@nowhere.com> wrote:

> >> And to make an install (or is it an update) USB disk I had to create a 
> >> root account.  Sudo doesn't work.  Have you seen the contortions you 
> >> have to go through to create a root account?
> > 
> > there is *no* need to create a root account to make a usb installer. none 
> > whatsoever.
> 
> When I tried to follow these instructions:
> 
> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372
> 
> the bash shell refused to execute the shell script "createinstallmedia" 
> from my admin account even when I used "sudo".  It gave me the message 
> "You have to be root to execute this command".

then you did something wrong.

try this instead:
<http://diskmakerx.com>

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#102123

On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 16:14:01 -0500, nospam wrote
(in article <090320171614013801%nospam@nospam.invalid>):

> In article <0001HW.D4E72EB200A6A575B02919BF@news.astraweb.com>, Nelson
> <nelson@nowhere.com> wrote:
> 
>>>> And to make an install (or is it an update) USB disk I had to create a 
>>>> root account.  Sudo doesn't work.  Have you seen the contortions you 
>>>> have to go through to create a root account?
>>> 
>>> there is *no* need to create a root account to make a usb installer. none 
>>> whatsoever.
>> 
>> When I tried to follow these instructions:
>> 
>> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372
>> 
>> the bash shell refused to execute the shell script "createinstallmedia" 
>> from my admin account even when I used "sudo".  It gave me the message 
>> "You have to be root to execute this command".
> 
> then you did something wrong.
> 
> try this instead:
> <http://diskmakerx.com>

Thanks, but I already did it as root.

-- 
Nelson

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#102124

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> try this instead:
> <http://diskmakerx.com>

Or 
<https://macdaddy.io/install-disk-creator/>

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#102125

Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 15:31:49 -0500, Tim Streater wrote
> (in article <090320172031493078%timstreater@greenbee.net>):
> 
> > In article <0001HW.D4E724DE00A457BEB02919BF@news.astraweb.com>, Nelson
> > <nelson@nowhere.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> Why did they do that?  Who needs two option-alt keys?  If something
> >> ain't broke, why does Apple have to keep fixing it?
> > 
> > <looks at keyboard>
> > 
> > No, the Enter key is still there.
> > 
> > Did some Apple pixies break in and steal yours then?
> 
> My Mac Book Pro 2009 has an Enter Key next to the command key on the 
> right of the space bar.  The 2011 replaced that with another Option 
> key.

I ran into the same issue when I moved from a 2007 to 2010 MacBook Pro.
I use at least three applications which benefit greatly from a distinct
Enter key, rather than having to do a two-handed fn-Return.

My initial solution was to use KeyRemap4Macbook, later renamed
Karabiner, to assign the right Option key as Enter. (I also used it for
other features, such as toggling the "fn required to get numbered
F-keys" while running VM software, so I could retain some degree of
sanity while using Windows in a VM.)

Unfortunately Apple made significant changes to the keyboard drivers in
Sierra which broke Karabiner. They are working on a rewrite and have an
interim version (Karabiner Elements) but it requires writing XML
configuration files and I couldn't be bothered.

I had a look around and found that Keyboard Maestro is able to do the
same thing. Working well now.

> I also just found out after two hours that the Install Sierra app 
> updates your existing system rather than does a clean install.  I guess
> they combined the two words "update" and "install" too.  You think they
> would give you a hint. Grrrrr!

That is no different to earlier versions, including versions prior to
Snow Leopard, so you should not be surprised. If there is a version of
OS X already installed on the target drive, the default behaviour of the
installer is to upgrade the existing system to the new version. Each
version supports a limited number of older versions for upgrade: if the
existing system is too old, the installer won't even let you install on
that drive, which is why you can't install Sierra on a drive which
contains Snow Leopard, for example.

In older OS versions there was an explicit option in the installer to
erase the target drive before doing the install, but starting with Snow
Leopard you had to do that manually by erasing the target drive in Disk
Utility before doing the install.

If you want a clean system with manual reinstall of applications, you
need to erase the drive, install the new OS version, then migrate
selected stuff (e.g. user accounts and settings only) from your backup.

Note that you can't use Setup/Migration Assistant to migrate from Snow
Leopard to Sierra - they are too far apart. You could however do that to
get from Snow Leopard to El Capitan, then upgrade from El Capitan to
Sierra.

> And to make an install (or is it an update) USB disk I had to create a
> root account.  Sudo doesn't work.  Have you seen the contortions you 
> have to go through to create a root account?

I've used sudo creatinstallmedia many times, including in Sierra. No
root account is required.

Something is broken with your sudo, assuming it isn't a more obvious
problem like trying to sudo from a non-admin account.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#102131

On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 17:25:36 -0500, David Empson wrote
(in article <1n2o2br.3biyuojtij0sN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>):

> Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 15:31:49 -0500, Tim Streater wrote
>> (in article <090320172031493078%timstreater@greenbee.net>):
>> 
>>> In article <0001HW.D4E724DE00A457BEB02919BF@news.astraweb.com>, Nelson
>>> <nelson@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Why did they do that?  Who needs two option-alt keys?  If something
>>>> ain't broke, why does Apple have to keep fixing it?
>>> 
>>> <looks at keyboard>
>>> 
>>> No, the Enter key is still there.
>>> 
>>> Did some Apple pixies break in and steal yours then?
>> 
>> My Mac Book Pro 2009 has an Enter Key next to the command key on the 
>> right of the space bar.  The 2011 replaced that with another Option 
>> key.
> 
> I ran into the same issue when I moved from a 2007 to 2010 MacBook Pro.
> I use at least three applications which benefit greatly from a distinct
> Enter key, rather than having to do a two-handed fn-Return.

I keep looking for it in the old place :(  The thing I can't figure is 
who but a lefty would want the command and control keys on the right?  
I'll bet Cook is a lefty.  He certainly takes the Windward Passage.

> I had a look around and found that Keyboard Maestro is able to do the
> same thing. Working well now.

Thanks.  I'll take a look at that.


>> I also just found out after two hours that the Install Sierra app 
>> updates your existing system rather than does a clean install.  I guess
>> they combined the two words "update" and "install" too.  You think they
>> would give you a hint. Grrrrr!

> Note that you can't use Setup/Migration Assistant to migrate from Snow
> Leopard to Sierra - they are too far apart. You could however do that to
> get from Snow Leopard to El Capitan, then upgrade from El Capitan to
> Sierra.

I originally cloned my production, Snow Leopard MBP to the spare and 
went the El Captain to Sierra upgrade route.  I have 87 Classic apps, 
176 PowerPC apps, 526 Universal apps, 427 Intel apps, and 22 
"Unspecified" apps... and all their associated cruft from God knows how 
long ago.  Plus all the junk left over from apps I removed but didn't 
catch everything.

I figure it will take less time to just install the stuff I need as I 
need it rather than getting rid of the stuff I don't.  We'll see.  I'm 
still experimenting.  The upgrade installer only identified _two_ 
incompatible apps :)  I found you can export and re-import all your 
Mail, Address Book, and Calendar data so I don't figure I need 
Migration Assistant.


>> And to make an install (or is it an update) USB disk I had to create a
>> root account.  Sudo doesn't work.  Have you seen the contortions you 
>> have to go through to create a root account?
> 
> I've used sudo creatinstallmedia many times, including in Sierra. No
> root account is required.

I'll take your word for it. 

-- 
Nelson

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#102134

Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> wrote:
> 
> I keep looking for it in the old place :(  The thing I can't figure is 
> who but a lefty would want the command and control keys on the right?  

I'm right-handed and I prefer having the Option key on both sides. 

> I'll bet Cook is a lefty.  He certainly takes the Windward Passage.

Windward Passage?

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#102138

In message <eie71oF1ld2U1@mid.individual.net> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I keep looking for it in the old place :(  The thing I can't figure is 
>> who but a lefty would want the command and control keys on the right?  

> I'm right-handed and I prefer having the Option key on both sides. 

Same.

I probably use the command key on the right more too.

>> I'll bet Cook is a lefty.  He certainly takes the Windward Passage.

> Windward Passage?

He's making a homophobic reference.

-- 
My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can
feel it. I can feel it. I'm... afraid.

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#102145

On 2017-03-10, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> In message <eie71oF1ld2U1@mid.individual.net> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'll bet Cook is a lefty.  He certainly takes the Windward Passage.
>
>> Windward Passage?
>
> He's making a homophobic reference.

I noticed he never answered either. So he's a cowardly prick bigot. 

Hey Nelson, if you are going to make a homophobic reference, don't beat
around the bush like a pansy - just come out and say it like a man, you
big pussy.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#102146

In article <eie71oF1ld2U1@mid.individual.net>,
 Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> wrote:
> > 
> > I keep looking for it in the old place :(  The thing I can't figure is 
> > who but a lefty would want the command and control keys on the right?  
> 
> I'm right-handed and I prefer having the Option key on both sides. 
> 
> > I'll bet Cook is a lefty.  He certainly takes the Windward Passage.
> 
> Windward Passage?

The really should have kept the enter key and disposed the carriage 
return instead. Common... CARRIAGE RETURN!!! :-PPP
-- 
teleportation kills

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#102147

On 2017-03-10, android <here@there.was> wrote:
> In article <eie71oF1ld2U1@mid.individual.net>,
>  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> > 
>> > I keep looking for it in the old place :(  The thing I can't figure is 
>> > who but a lefty would want the command and control keys on the right?  
>> 
>> I'm right-handed and I prefer having the Option key on both sides. 
>> 
>> > I'll bet Cook is a lefty.  He certainly takes the Windward Passage.
>> 
>> Windward Passage?
>
> The really should have kept the enter key and disposed the carriage 
> return instead. Common... CARRIAGE RETURN!!! :-PPP

Nobody cares.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#102148

In article <eifu1pFblhpU5@mid.individual.net>,
 Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2017-03-10, android <here@there.was> wrote:
> > In article <eie71oF1ld2U1@mid.individual.net>,
> >  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >> > 
> >> > I keep looking for it in the old place :(  The thing I can't figure is 
> >> > who but a lefty would want the command and control keys on the right?  
> >> 
> >> I'm right-handed and I prefer having the Option key on both sides. 
> >> 
> >> > I'll bet Cook is a lefty.  He certainly takes the Windward Passage.
> >> 
> >> Windward Passage?
> >
> > The really should have kept the enter key and disposed the carriage 
> > return instead. Common... CARRIAGE RETURN!!! :-PPP
> 
> Nobody cares.

You replied.
-- 
teleportation kills

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#102150

On 2017-03-10, android <here@there.was> wrote:
> In article <eifu1pFblhpU5@mid.individual.net>,
>  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2017-03-10, android <here@there.was> wrote:
>> > In article <eie71oF1ld2U1@mid.individual.net>,
>> >  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> >> > 
>> >> > I keep looking for it in the old place :(  The thing I can't figure is 
>> >> > who but a lefty would want the command and control keys on the right?  
>> >> 
>> >> I'm right-handed and I prefer having the Option key on both sides. 
>> >> 
>> >> > I'll bet Cook is a lefty.  He certainly takes the Windward Passage.
>> >> 
>> >> Windward Passage?
>> >
>> > The really should have kept the enter key and disposed the carriage 
>> > return instead. Common... CARRIAGE RETURN!!! :-PPP
>> 
>> Nobody cares.
>
> You replied.

Enjoy your Option key. : )

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#102152

On 2017-03-10, android <here@there.was> wrote:
>
> You replied.

<https://i.imgur.com/uYQmG8B.jpg> : )

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#102151

On 10/03/2017 15:09, android wrote:
> In article <eie71oF1ld2U1@mid.individual.net>,
>  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I keep looking for it in the old place :(  The thing I can't figure is
>>> who but a lefty would want the command and control keys on the right?
>>
>> I'm right-handed and I prefer having the Option key on both sides.
>>
>>> I'll bet Cook is a lefty.  He certainly takes the Windward Passage.
>>
>> Windward Passage?
>
> The really should have kept the enter key and disposed the carriage
> return instead. Common... CARRIAGE RETURN!!! :-PPP


https://youtu.be/JY3QfJ6KHq0


-- 
Just a bit of fun! ;-)

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#102433

On 3/9/17 5:25 p, David Empson wrote:
...
> In older OS versions there was an explicit option in the installer to
> erase the target drive before doing the install, but starting with Snow
> Leopard you had to do that manually by erasing the target drive in Disk
> Utility before doing the install. ...

With post-10.6 OSes, when you do a re-install (no erasing of the drive), 
exactly what does the installer delete and not delete when it does its 
thing. I'm specifically curious as to what a re-install may leave behind 
if I want to use such a tactic to purge unseen, probably unwanted files 
which a now deleted app may have left behind.

Does the installer go file by file or major folder by major folder? I 
could see it replacing the System folder in its entirety, but doing the 
same thing with the main Library would probably cause problems with 
installed app which one might to maintain.

-- 
Trump's _increase_ in military spending would fund Public Broadcasting 
in its entirety for 121 years!
Ax Trump, NOT Big Bird!

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