Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #101127 > unrolled thread

Unable to migrate TM's encrypted case sensitive datas to a new drive with non-case sensitive encrypted HFS.

Started by	Ant <ant@zimage.comANT>
First post	2017-02-25 01:07 -0800
Last post	2017-02-25 15:41 +0000
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#101127 — Unable to migrate TM's encrypted case sensitive datas to a new drive with non-case sensitive encrypted HFS.

From	Ant <ant@zimage.comANT>
Date	2017-02-25 01:07 -0800
Subject	Unable to migrate TM's encrypted case sensitive datas to a new drive with non-case sensitive encrypted HFS.
Message-ID	<jZmdnTg7M8j_1CzFnZ2dnUU7-TWdnZ2d@earthlink.com>

"The selected source cannot be used for migration. This source is not 
using a Case Sensitive filesystem, while your Mac system is."

Both Time Machines were encrypted and backed up recently with Mac OS X 
v10.8.5/Mountain Lion.

15" early-2008 MBP was just formatted and installed with a brand new El 
Capitan v10.11.(5&6).

 From what I read this is normal, but a pain to fix (e.g., reformat the 
drive into the correct file system). Am I correct?

Thank you in advance. :)
-- 
"What is it going to be like in eternity with God? Frankly, the capacity 
of our brains cannot handle the wonder and greatness of heaven. It would 
be like trying to describe the Internet to an ant." --Rick Warren's 
book, The Purpose Driven Life
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#101147

From	nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date	2017-02-25 09:52 -0500
Message-ID	<250220170952524118%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to	#101127

In article <jZmdnTg7M8j_1CzFnZ2dnUU7-TWdnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Ant
<ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> "The selected source cannot be used for migration. This source is not 
> using a Case Sensitive filesystem, while your Mac system is."

don't use a case sensitive file system. why would anyone want to do
that anyway?

> 
>  From what I read this is normal, but a pain to fix (e.g., reformat the 
> drive into the correct file system). Am I correct?

yes.

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#101161

From	Ant <ant@zimage.comANT>
Date	2017-02-25 09:58 -0800
Message-ID	<DdKdnXGnBLolWCzFnZ2dnUU7-LudnZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to	#101147

On 2/25/2017 6:52 AM, nospam wrote:
> In article <jZmdnTg7M8j_1CzFnZ2dnUU7-TWdnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Ant
> <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
>
>> "The selected source cannot be used for migration. This source is not
>> using a Case Sensitive filesystem, while your Mac system is."
>
> don't use a case sensitive file system. why would anyone want to do
> that anyway?

Because I use UNIX and Linux a lot.


>>  From what I read this is normal, but a pain to fix (e.g., reformat the
>> drive into the correct file system). Am I correct?
>
> yes.

Dang it. :(
-- 
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#101165

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2017-02-25 18:15 +0000
Message-ID	<ehdvt4Fi3enU3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#101161

On 2017-02-25, Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> On 2/25/2017 6:52 AM, nospam wrote:
>> In article <jZmdnTg7M8j_1CzFnZ2dnUU7-TWdnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Ant
>> <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
>>
>>> "The selected source cannot be used for migration. This source is not
>>> using a Case Sensitive filesystem, while your Mac system is."
>>
>> don't use a case sensitive file system. why would anyone want to do
>> that anyway?
>
> Because I use UNIX and Linux a lot.

Bullshit excuse. There's NO need for a case sensitive file system with
macOS (which is UNIX based).

>>>  From what I read this is normal, but a pain to fix (e.g., reformat the
>>> drive into the correct file system). Am I correct?
>>
>> yes.
>
> Dang it. :(

Learn from it. Don't do it again.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#101168

From	Ant <ant@zimage.comANT>
Date	2017-02-25 10:35 -0800
Message-ID	<_f2dnQ5ZLbjgUyzFnZ2dnUU7-WWdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to	#101165

On 2/25/2017 10:15 AM, Jolly Roger wrote:

>>>>  From what I read this is normal, but a pain to fix (e.g., reformat the
>>>> drive into the correct file system). Am I correct?
>>>
>>> yes.
>>
>> Dang it. :(
>
> Learn from it. Don't do it again.

Yep, learning. Itr's a good thing I didn't get far.

-- 
"Go to the ant, thou sluggard; consider her ways and be wise: which 
having no guide, overseer or ruler, provideth her meat in the summer and 
gathereth her food in the harvest." --Proverbs 6:6-8 (Bible)
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see 
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#101180

From	Alrescha <alrescha@gmail.com>
Date	2017-02-25 15:41 -0500
Message-ID	<o8sq2l$ol0$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#101147

On 2017-02-25 14:52:52 +0000, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> said:

> don't use a case sensitive file system. why would anyone want to do
> that anyway?

For what it's worth, all of my non-OS filesystems are case-sensitive 
(with no issues).  Why whould anyone want to do anything else?

A.

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#101181

From	nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date	2017-02-25 15:46 -0500
Message-ID	<250220171546148344%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to	#101180

In article <o8sq2l$ol0$1@dont-email.me>, Alrescha <alrescha@gmail.com>
wrote:

> 
> > don't use a case sensitive file system. why would anyone want to do
> > that anyway?
> 
> For what it's worth, all of my non-OS filesystems are case-sensitive 
> (with no issues).  Why whould anyone want to do anything else?

because it's not how humans think, making it harder to do things.

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#101183

From	Alrescha <alrescha@gmail.com>
Date	2017-02-25 16:03 -0500
Message-ID	<o8src7$tfl$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#101181

On 2017-02-25 20:46:14 +0000, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> said:

> because it's not how humans think, making it harder to do things.

An interesting concept.  Contrary to your assertion, it *is* how this 
human thinks.

A.

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#101188

From	nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date	2017-02-25 16:25 -0500
Message-ID	<250220171625309675%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to	#101183

In article <o8src7$tfl$1@dont-email.me>, Alrescha <alrescha@gmail.com>
wrote:

> 
> > because it's not how humans think, making it harder to do things.
> 
> An interesting concept.  Contrary to your assertion, it *is* how this 
> human thinks.

if you walk into a store wanting to buy beer and see a sign that says
BEER in big letters or a flyer by the door that says Imported Beer
Sale, do you ignore it because you want beer, not BEER or Beer? of
course not. 

humans don't think that way. 

the only reason case sensitive file systems exists at all is because
programmers were too lazy to do it properly. 

computers are there to do work *for* people, not the other way around.
forcing humans to make it easier for a computer is *backwards*.

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#101189

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2017-02-25 21:29 +0000
Message-ID	<eheb98FkbriU4@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#101188

On 2017-02-25, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <o8src7$tfl$1@dont-email.me>, Alrescha <alrescha@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> 
>> > because it's not how humans think, making it harder to do things.
>> 
>> An interesting concept.  Contrary to your assertion, it *is* how this 
>> human thinks.
>
> if you walk into a store wanting to buy beer and see a sign that says
> BEER in big letters or a flyer by the door that says Imported Beer
> Sale, do you ignore it because you want beer, not BEER or Beer? of
> course not. 
>
> humans don't think that way. 
>
> the only reason case sensitive file systems exists at all is because
> programmers were too lazy to do it properly. 
>
> computers are there to do work *for* people, not the other way around.
> forcing humans to make it easier for a computer is *backwards*.

Bingo. 

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#101200

From	Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu>
Date	2017-02-25 19:31 -0500
Message-ID	<barmar-C25595.19315725022017@88-209-239-213.giganet.hu>
In reply to	#101189

In article <eheb98FkbriU4@mid.individual.net>,
 Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2017-02-25, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> > In article <o8src7$tfl$1@dont-email.me>, Alrescha <alrescha@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> 
> >> > because it's not how humans think, making it harder to do things.
> >> 
> >> An interesting concept.  Contrary to your assertion, it *is* how this 
> >> human thinks.
> >
> > if you walk into a store wanting to buy beer and see a sign that says
> > BEER in big letters or a flyer by the door that says Imported Beer
> > Sale, do you ignore it because you want beer, not BEER or Beer? of
> > course not. 
> >
> > humans don't think that way. 
> >
> > the only reason case sensitive file systems exists at all is because
> > programmers were too lazy to do it properly. 
> >
> > computers are there to do work *for* people, not the other way around.
> > forcing humans to make it easier for a computer is *backwards*.
> 
> Bingo.

I think you mean BINGO.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

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#101190

From	Alrescha <alrescha@gmail.com>
Date	2017-02-25 16:47 -0500
Message-ID	<o8sttq$66m$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#101188

On 2017-02-25 21:25:30 +0000, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> said:

> if you walk into a store wanting to buy beer and see a sign that says
> BEER in big letters or a flyer by the door that says Imported Beer
> Sale, do you ignore it because you want beer, not BEER or Beer? of
> course not.

True enough, but I do not see the relevance to filenames on a 
filesystem.  They are strings of characters, and I for one prefer 
differences in those strings to be recognized and respected.

> humans don't think that way.

Repeating this doesn't make it more convincing.

> the only reason case sensitive file systems exists at all is because
> programmers were too lazy to do it properly.

I am not sure disparaging some possibly-dead programmer is useful.

> computers are there to do work *for* people, not the other way around.
> forcing humans to make it easier for a computer is *backwards*.

A nice sentiment.  How does it apply here?  This is my choice, not a 
computer's.

A.

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#101192

From	nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date	2017-02-25 16:55 -0500
Message-ID	<250220171655491196%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to	#101190

In article <o8sttq$66m$1@dont-email.me>, Alrescha <alrescha@gmail.com>
wrote:

> 
> > if you walk into a store wanting to buy beer and see a sign that says
> > BEER in big letters or a flyer by the door that says Imported Beer
> > Sale, do you ignore it because you want beer, not BEER or Beer? of
> > course not.
> 
> True enough, but I do not see the relevance to filenames on a 
> filesystem.  They are strings of characters, and I for one prefer 
> differences in those strings to be recognized and respected.

they all point to the same thing.

> > humans don't think that way.
> 
> Repeating this doesn't make it more convincing.

ignoring it doesn't make it not true.

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#101202

From	Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu>
Date	2017-02-25 19:35 -0500
Message-ID	<barmar-5036B8.19352825022017@88-209-239-213.giganet.hu>
In reply to	#101190

In article <o8sttq$66m$1@dont-email.me>, Alrescha <alrescha@gmail.com> 
wrote:

> On 2017-02-25 21:25:30 +0000, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> said:
> 
> > if you walk into a store wanting to buy beer and see a sign that says
> > BEER in big letters or a flyer by the door that says Imported Beer
> > Sale, do you ignore it because you want beer, not BEER or Beer? of
> > course not.
> 
> True enough, but I do not see the relevance to filenames on a 
> filesystem.  They are strings of characters, and I for one prefer 
> differences in those strings to be recognized and respected.

OS X is case-preserving. So if you name a file "Foo", it will show up 
that way, but you can still type "foo" to access it.

The only situation where case-sensitivity can be an issue is if you try 
to use two variants of the same name in the same folder, e.g. you want 
to have both "Foo" and "FOO". Or if, for some reason, you want to get an 
error if someone types the name with the wrong case. But Mac users don't 
generally type names, they click on them in Finder windows or file-open 
dialogues.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

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#101236

From	nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date	2017-02-26 02:53 -0500
Message-ID	<260220170253167066%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to	#101202

In article <barmar-5036B8.19352825022017@88-209-239-213.giganet.hu>,
Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

> > > if you walk into a store wanting to buy beer and see a sign that says
> > > BEER in big letters or a flyer by the door that says Imported Beer
> > > Sale, do you ignore it because you want beer, not BEER or Beer? of
> > > course not.
> > 
> > True enough, but I do not see the relevance to filenames on a 
> > filesystem.  They are strings of characters, and I for one prefer 
> > differences in those strings to be recognized and respected.
> 
> OS X is case-preserving. So if you name a file "Foo", it will show up 
> that way, but you can still type "foo" to access it.

which is exactly how it should work.

> The only situation where case-sensitivity can be an issue is if you try 
> to use two variants of the same name in the same folder, e.g. you want 
> to have both "Foo" and "FOO". Or if, for some reason, you want to get an 
> error if someone types the name with the wrong case. But Mac users don't 
> generally type names, they click on them in Finder windows or file-open 
> dialogues.

there is no reason for foo, Foo and FOO to be different files or
different anything.

search for dog, Dog and DOG. do you expect to get the same results or
different results?

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#101239

From	android <here@there.was>
Date	2017-02-26 09:29 +0100
Message-ID	<ehfhueFrai1U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#101236

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> Wrote in message:
> In article <barmar-5036B8.19352825022017@88-209-239-213.giganet.hu>,
> Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> 
>> > > if you walk into a store wanting to buy beer and see a sign that says
>> > > BEER in big letters or a flyer by the door that says Imported Beer
>> > > Sale, do you ignore it because you want beer, not BEER or Beer? of
>> > > course not.
>> > 
>> > True enough, but I do not see the relevance to filenames on a 
>> > filesystem.  They are strings of characters, and I for one prefer 
>> > differences in those strings to be recognized and respected.
>> 
>> OS X is case-preserving. So if you name a file "Foo", it will show up 
>> that way, but you can still type "foo" to access it.
> 
> which is exactly how it should work.
> 
>> The only situation where case-sensitivity can be an issue is if you try 
>> to use two variants of the same name in the same folder, e.g. you want 
>> to have both "Foo" and "FOO". Or if, for some reason, you want to get an 
>> error if someone types the name with the wrong case. But Mac users don't 
>> generally type names, they click on them in Finder windows or file-open 
>> dialogues.
> 
> there is no reason for foo, Foo and FOO to be different files or
> different anything.

Soo... It's not the keyboard!
> 
> search for dog, Dog and DOG. do you expect to get the same results or
> different results?
> 
I expect Dog to be a name, DOG an acronym and dog an animal...
-- 
Bats can't tell us apart!



----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

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#101228

From	Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net>
Date	2017-02-25 21:28 -0800
Message-ID	<o8tp2q$vg5$2@news.datemas.de>
In reply to	#101183

On 2017-02-25 1:03 PM, Alrescha wrote:
> On 2017-02-25 20:46:14 +0000, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> said:
>
>> because it's not how humans think, making it harder to do things.
>
> An interesting concept.  Contrary to your assertion, it *is* how this
> human thinks.
>
> A.
>

Really?

You would consider a file named "test" to be distinct from a file named 
"Test"?

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#101231

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2017-02-26 05:58 +0000
Message-ID	<ehf93tFpoj3U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#101228

On 2017-02-26, Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> wrote:
> On 2017-02-25 1:03 PM, Alrescha wrote:
>> On 2017-02-25 20:46:14 +0000, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> said:
>>
>>> because it's not how humans think, making it harder to do things.
>>
>> An interesting concept.  Contrary to your assertion, it *is* how this
>> human thinks.
>
> Really?
>
> You would consider a file named "test" to be distinct from a file named 
> "Test"?

Yes, but more importantly, he doesn't see that it would be detrimental
to his productivity to require himself to distinguish between the two at
every turn. ; )

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#101258

From	Alrescha <alrescha@gmail.com>
Date	2017-02-26 10:47 -0500
Message-ID	<o8ut69$ev9$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#101228

On 2017-02-26 05:28:58 +0000, Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> said:

> You would consider a file named "test" to be distinct from a file named "Test"?

Of course.  That's the whole point.

> Can you give me one concrete case from your own life where that was an 
> important consideration?

Concrete?  Yes.  Important, no.  But it is one people might relate to:

I have several CDs in my collection that were original published with 
the artist and titles in all lower case.  They were then published by 
another label in a different country with traditional title case.  I 
have both sets, and their artist, titles, and track names are properly 
represented in the filesystem.  e.g.: there are directories for 
"artist/title" and "Artist/Title".  Even iTunes (with a little nudging) 
handles this.

I consider this flexibility, not limitation.

If I didn't happen to have a case-sensitive filesystem, there would be 
name collisions.  I could come up with some scheme to handle the 
situation but that's *more* work for me - and flies in the face of 
nospam's ever-so-appreciated "computers should do work for people, not 
the other way around".

On 2017-02-26 09:46:58 +0000, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> said:

> If you see a road sign that says "Must Turn LEFT" are you confused if
> the sign means left or Left or LEfT or lEFT?

Why would I be confused?  Why do you equate filenames in a filesystem 
with the English language?  How does this support a negative view of a 
case-sensitive filesystem?

As barmar rightly points out, most Mac users would probably not need a 
case-sensitive filesystem.  And it's is also true that Apple does not 
recommend it for the boot volume.  On the other hand we here are not 
'most Mac users' and all this parochial nonsense is for the birds.  
Cute but irrelevant witticisms do not an argument make.

A.

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#101268

From	nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date	2017-02-26 12:12 -0500
Message-ID	<260220171212510870%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to	#101258

In article <o8ut69$ev9$1@dont-email.me>, Alrescha <alrescha@gmail.com>
wrote:

> 
> > Can you give me one concrete case from your own life where that was an 
> > important consideration?
> 
> Concrete?  Yes.  Important, no.  But it is one people might relate to:
> 
> I have several CDs in my collection that were original published with 
> the artist and titles in all lower case.  They were then published by 
> another label in a different country with traditional title case.  I 
> have both sets, and their artist, titles, and track names are properly 
> represented in the filesystem.  e.g.: there are directories for 
> "artist/title" and "Artist/Title".  Even iTunes (with a little nudging) 
> handles this.

using the file system to organize music or other content is horribly
limiting. 

that's what asset managers are for, which can do a much better and far
more flexible job than being limited to the file system, regardless of
case sensitivity.

itunes doesn't need any nudging whatsoever to handle that either.

> I consider this flexibility, not limitation.

i consider it a lame excuse.

> If I didn't happen to have a case-sensitive filesystem, there would be 
> name collisions.  I could come up with some scheme to handle the 
> situation but that's *more* work for me - and flies in the face of 
> nospam's ever-so-appreciated "computers should do work for people, not 
> the other way around".

the only reason there would be name collisions is because you
intentionally generated them yourself or you're using poorly written
software that makes assumptions about the file system. such software is
by definition, buggy and obsolete and almost certainly will have a
shitload of other problems.

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Unable to migrate TM's encrypted case sensitive datas to a new drive with non-case sensitive encrypted HFS.

Contents

#101127 — Unable to migrate TM's encrypted case sensitive datas to a new drive with non-case sensitive encrypted HFS.

#101147

#101161

#101165

#101168

#101180

#101181

#101183

#101188

#101189

#101200

#101190

#101192

#101202

#101236

#101239

#101228

#101231

#101258

#101268