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Best version of OS X for an older iMac?

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  Best version of OS X for an older iMac? Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> - 2017-01-11 19:58 +0000
    Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2017-01-11 15:11 -0500
    Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-01-11 15:15 -0500
      Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? Bruce Esquibel <bje@ripco.com> - 2017-01-12 11:36 +0000
        Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2017-01-12 05:11 -0700
        Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-01-12 10:16 -0500
          Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2017-01-13 11:06 +1300
            Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> - 2017-01-13 04:48 +0000
              Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2017-01-14 00:06 +1300
                Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> - 2017-01-13 16:50 +0000
                  Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-01-13 11:58 -0500
                  Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-01-13 16:59 +0000
                    Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> - 2017-01-13 18:12 +0000
                      Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2017-01-14 10:06 +1300
                        Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-01-14 01:12 +0000
                        Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> - 2017-01-16 20:38 +0000
                          Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-01-16 21:55 +0000
                            Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2017-01-16 17:29 -0500
                          Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2017-01-17 12:18 +1300
                          Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? John Albert <j.albert@snet.net> - 2017-01-16 23:25 -0500
                            Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2017-01-17 18:25 +1300
                              Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> - 2017-02-04 21:30 +0000
                                Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2017-02-06 14:04 +1300
                            Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> - 2017-01-17 05:55 +0000
                  Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2017-01-14 11:35 +1100
        Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-01-12 22:05 +0000
    Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-01-11 21:14 +0000
      Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> - 2017-01-13 05:13 +0000
        Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2017-01-13 18:31 +1100
        Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-01-13 15:15 +0000
          Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> - 2017-01-13 18:11 +0000
            Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2017-01-14 10:06 +1300
              Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> - 2017-01-13 23:43 +0000
    Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-01-12 05:32 +0000
    Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? android <here@there.was> - 2017-01-12 08:40 +0100
      Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> - 2017-01-12 11:19 -0500
        Re: Best version of OS X for an older iMac? android <here@there.was> - 2017-01-12 19:29 +0100

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#98531 — Best version of OS X for an older iMac?

This is long-range planning, but what version of OS X could I
reasonably expect to run on a mid-2011 iMac? Here are the specs
on it:

PROCESSOR	065-0248	2.7GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i5
MEMORY	        065-0251	4GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB
HARD DRIVE	065-0255	1TB Serial ATA Drive
GRAPHICS	065-8998	AMD RadeonHD 6770M 512MB GDDR5

I'm currently running 10.6.8 and won't upgrade until I'm confident
that I've satisfactorily replaced all the Rosetta apps I currently
use. I don't care if I can't take the iMac up to 10.12; I have my
MacBook to handle anything that needs the latest OS. I'm concerned
that OS X might have kept getting bigger and more processor-intensive 
and thus there might be a sweet spot with a version that has the 
post-10.6 framework but will run better than the latest versions.
Or maybe I'm wrong and the latest versions are lean and will run
fine on an older iMac. Looking for guidance on that.

FYI, I have Lion available. I got it (free) just after I got the iMac.


Patty

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#98532

Patty Winter:

> This is long-range planning, but what version of OS X could I
> reasonably expect to run on a mid-2011 iMac? Here are the specs
> on it:

I don't know about "best," but my wife is running the latest Sierra,
10.12.2, on her mid-2011 iMac. Works like a charm.

I'm running the latest Sierra on a mid-2010 17" MBPro. Also works great.

-- 
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

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#98533

In article <o562pd$2kq$1@dont-email.me>, Patty Winter
<patty1@wintertime.com> wrote:

> This is long-range planning, but what version of OS X could I
> reasonably expect to run on a mid-2011 iMac? 

sierra

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#98549

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> sierra

Great answer but for her isn't it a two step process?

She has to get El Capitan installed, then sierra?

I don't think you can go from 10.6.8 to sierra directly.

So her only choices are El Capitan or Sierra anyway, unless she downloaded
the others (Mavericks, Yosemite) previously, they wouldn't be available from
the app store anyway.

-bruce
bje@ripco.com

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#98550

Bruce Esquibel <bje@ripco.com> wrote:

> Great answer but for her isn't it a two step process?
> 
> She has to get El Capitan installed, then sierra?
> 
> I don't think you can go from 10.6.8 to sierra directly.
> 
> So her only choices are El Capitan or Sierra anyway, unless she downloaded
> the others (Mavericks, Yosemite) previously, they wouldn't be available from
> the app store anyway.

Yes, according to the General Requirements, Sierra requires 10.7.5 or
later. 

<http://www.apple.com/macos/how-to-upgrade/>

She should see what shows up as available in App Store. It might be
neceessary for her to call Apple. 

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#98553

In article <o57por$s7j$1@remote5bge0.ripco.com>, Bruce Esquibel
<bje@ripco.com> wrote:

> 
> > sierra
> 
> Great answer but for her isn't it a two step process?

depends what you call two step. 

> She has to get El Capitan installed, then sierra?
>
> I don't think you can go from 10.6.8 to sierra directly.

apple states that for an upgrade, lion or later is required, but that's
not the only way.

another option is make a sierra usb installer and install directly. it
even works on a blank hard drive, which may actually be required in
this case. i'm not sure what the sierra installer will do on a 10.6
install. 

> So her only choices are El Capitan or Sierra anyway, unless she downloaded
> the others (Mavericks, Yosemite) previously, they wouldn't be available from
> the app store anyway.

lion and mountain lion are still available for purchase. 

mavericks, yosemite & el capitan are no longer available unless
previously downloaded.

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#98571

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <o57por$s7j$1@remote5bge0.ripco.com>, Bruce Esquibel
> <bje@ripco.com> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > > sierra
> > 
> > Great answer but for her isn't it a two step process?
> 
> depends what you call two step. 

Upgrading a 10.6 system to 10.12 requires upgrading to an intermediate
version, then to 10.12. That sounds like two steps to me.

> > She has to get El Capitan installed, then sierra?
> >
> > I don't think you can go from 10.6.8 to sierra directly.
> 
> apple states that for an upgrade, lion or later is required, but that's
> not the only way.
> 
> another option is make a sierra usb installer and install directly. it
> even works on a blank hard drive, which may actually be required in
> this case. i'm not sure what the sierra installer will do on a 10.6
> install. 

Attempting to install Sierra on top of an existing 10.6 system will
fail. The installer only has support code for upgrading a 10.7 or later
system.

Similar for Lion through El Capitan: they could not be installed on top
of an existing 10.5 or earlier system, only a drive with no system, or
one containing 10.6 or later.

The cutoffs are different for migration: 10.7 could migrate from 10.4 or
later, 10.8 from 10.5 or later, and 10.9-10.11 could migrate from 10.6
or later.

I haven't checked whether 10.12 can migrate from 10.6 but it wouldn't
surprise me if this also requires 10.7 or later.

> > So her only choices are El Capitan or Sierra anyway, unless she downloaded
> > the others (Mavericks, Yosemite) previously, they wouldn't be available from
> > the app store anyway.
> 
> lion and mountain lion are still available for purchase. 

But pointless wasting the money because El Capitan is free.

> mavericks, yosemite & el capitan are no longer available unless
> previously downloaded.

El Capitan is still available. Apple has a support article providing a
link to get it from App Store.

https://support.apple.com/HT206886

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#98592

In article <1mzsbbk.1m88y4h1qzd853N%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>,
David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
>
>Upgrading a 10.6 system to 10.12 requires upgrading to an intermediate
>version, then to 10.12. That sounds like two steps to me.

Looks like it might take three steps. I have the first release of
Lion, and Apple says a direct upgrade to Sierra requires 10.7.5. :-(


>But pointless wasting the money because El Capitan is free.

So, Lion to El Cap to Sierra?


>El Capitan is still available. Apple has a support article providing a
>link to get it from App Store.
>
>https://support.apple.com/HT206886

Oh, that page specifically mentions Snow Leopard! Looks like I
can go SL -> El Cap -> Sierra.

JR, I saw your advice about RAM, too. Will investigate that.


Patty

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#98601

Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> wrote:

> In article <1mzsbbk.1m88y4h1qzd853N%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>,
> David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> >
> >Upgrading a 10.6 system to 10.12 requires upgrading to an intermediate
> >version, then to 10.12. That sounds like two steps to me.
> 
> Looks like it might take three steps. I have the first release of
> Lion, and Apple says a direct upgrade to Sierra requires 10.7.5. :-(

If you are currently running Snow Leopard, previously bought Lion (i.e.
it appears in your App Store purchase history), then you can download
the latest Lion installer from your purchase history, install that
(which will give you 10.7.5), and then install Sierra once running Lion.

If your Mac was already running Lion (10.7.0), then you could just use
App Store to do a software update to 10.7.5 before installing Sierra.

There is no practical difference between going from Snow Leopard to Lion
then to Sierra, vs going from Snow Leopard to El Capitan then Sierra.

As always, make sure you have a full backup of your Snow Leopard system
before starting the upgrades, in case something goes wrong and you need
to roll back to where you started.

> >But pointless wasting the money because El Capitan is free.
> 
> So, Lion to El Cap to Sierra?
> 
> >El Capitan is still available. Apple has a support article providing a
> >link to get it from App Store.
> >
> >https://support.apple.com/HT206886
> 
> Oh, that page specifically mentions Snow Leopard! Looks like I
> can go SL -> El Cap -> Sierra.

Yes.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#98609

In article <1mztdwq.wetz8911a7t02N%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>,
David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
>
>As always, make sure you have a full backup of your Snow Leopard system
>before starting the upgrades, in case something goes wrong and you need
>to roll back to where you started.

What's the best way to make a full backup that can be restored properly?


>> >But pointless wasting the money because El Capitan is free.

I downloaded it last night.


Patty

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#98610

In article <o5b0gt$rik$1@dont-email.me>, Patty Winter
<patty1@wintertime.com> wrote:

> >As always, make sure you have a full backup of your Snow Leopard system
> >before starting the upgrades, in case something goes wrong and you need
> >to roll back to where you started.
> 
> What's the best way to make a full backup that can be restored properly?

best depends on many factors, but the easiest way is clone it.

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#98611

On 2017-01-13, Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> wrote:
>
> In article <1mztdwq.wetz8911a7t02N%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>,
> David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
>>
>>As always, make sure you have a full backup of your Snow Leopard system
>>before starting the upgrades, in case something goes wrong and you need
>>to roll back to where you started.
>
> What's the best way to make a full backup that can be restored properly?

If you have a recent Time Machine backup, that will suffice. Otherwise
(or additionally if you want more than one backup), you can use
SuperDuper to back up the startup drive to another hard drive or a disk
image, then restore from that if needed later.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#98616

In article <edsfc3FmgsgU1@mid.individual.net>,
Jolly Roger  <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>On 2017-01-13, Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> wrote:
>>
>> What's the best way to make a full backup that can be restored properly?
>
>If you have a recent Time Machine backup, that will suffice. 

Oh, sure, I have that. And it will be safe even after the computer
backs up the new system, right?


Patty

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#98618

Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> wrote:

> In article <edsfc3FmgsgU1@mid.individual.net>,
> Jolly Roger  <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> >On 2017-01-13, Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> What's the best way to make a full backup that can be restored properly?
> >
> >If you have a recent Time Machine backup, that will suffice. 
> 
> Oh, sure, I have that. And it will be safe even after the computer
> backs up the new system, right?

To restore the Snow Leopard system from a TM backup, you would need to
boot from a Snow Leopard install DVD, use the utility to restore a Time
Machine backup, then you can pick an arbitrary backup to be restored.

Older TM backups made under Snow Leopard will still be available, apart
from the usual pruning pattern: TM retains one backup per day for the
last month, one per week prior to that. TM won't prune backups until it
does a new automatic backup, so you can delay deletion of the last Snow
Leopard backup by doing the upgrade as follows:

1. Arrange the timing so that your final Time Machine backup will be the
first one in the day. The easiest way to do this to turn off automatic
Time Machine backups the previous night (System Preferences > Time
Machine > big switch OFF).

The first backup of the day is retained for a month, which gives you a
longer period in which you can be sure that backup is available to be
restored.

2. Before doing the final backup, quit all applications. Some
applications like active virtual machine software or Microsoft Entourage
constantly modifies their files, which cannot be reliably backed up by
Time Machine while the application is running.

3. Do a manual backup with Time Machine.

4. When the backup finishes, make a note of the date and time so you can
easily locate the last Snow Leopard backup.

5. Do the OS upgrades.

6. Once running the new system, test that everything is working to your
satisfaction.

7. Once you are happy, turn on automatic Time Machine backups again in
System Preferencees.

(The first backup under the new OS will be a big one as it needs to back
up the entire operating system, but it will happen in the background as
normal.)


I prefer to keep a separate clone backup made with SuperDuper (or Carbon
Copy Cloner) just before upgrading a system, and hold onto that backup
for a while. This avoids the trouble of having to find a specific TM
backup to restore, and worrying about whether that last backup had been
pruned. (I quit all applications before making that clone, so that
nothing important is being modified while the backup is in progress.)

Another factor is that you can configure Time Machine to not back up
some folders. If you've used that feature (which I have), then a TM
backup will not be sufficient to do a full system restore.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#98624

David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> 
> I prefer to keep a separate clone backup made with SuperDuper (or Carbon
> Copy Cloner) just before upgrading a system, and hold onto that backup
> for a while. This avoids the trouble of having to find a specific TM
> backup to restore, and worrying about whether that last backup had been
> pruned. (I quit all applications before making that clone, so that
> nothing important is being modified while the backup is in progress.)
> 
> Another factor is that you can configure Time Machine to not back up
> some folders. If you've used that feature (which I have), then a TM
> backup will not be sufficient to do a full system restore.

I use SuperDuper to do one-off backups like that before major upgrades as
well. And if you use it to back up to a disk image you can keep that around
indefinitely.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#98692

In article <1mzu4kl.15txfih13yr6omN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>,
David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
>
>To restore the Snow Leopard system from a TM backup, you would need to
>boot from a Snow Leopard install DVD, use the utility to restore a Time
>Machine backup, then you can pick an arbitrary backup to be restored.

Just to verify, a TM backup made by Snow Leopard will still be fully
readable by El Capitan or Sierra, right? There's no index whose format
has changed in recent years or anything like that?


Patty

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#98697

On 2017-01-16, Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> wrote:
>
> In article <1mzu4kl.15txfih13yr6omN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>,
> David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
>>
>>To restore the Snow Leopard system from a TM backup, you would need to
>>boot from a Snow Leopard install DVD, use the utility to restore a Time
>>Machine backup, then you can pick an arbitrary backup to be restored.
>
> Just to verify, a TM backup made by Snow Leopard will still be fully
> readable by El Capitan or Sierra, right? There's no index whose format
> has changed in recent years or anything like that?

Hmm... Good question. I have computers running 10.6 and 10.11 getting
backed up with Time Machine. And I don't see a significant difference in
the data stored on the backup volume. So I wouldn't expect any problems;
but since I haven't actually restored a 10.6 TM backup to the latest OS
versions, I can't say with complete certainty you won't have any issues.
With that said, I don't think you need to worry about the TM backup
itself being compromised by attempting to restore from it. The restore
will either work or it won't. If it doesn't work, you still have your
data backed up if you need to start over.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#98700

On 2017-01-16 16:55, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2017-01-16, Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> wrote:
>>
>> In article <1mzu4kl.15txfih13yr6omN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>,
>> David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
>>>
>>> To restore the Snow Leopard system from a TM backup, you would need to
>>> boot from a Snow Leopard install DVD, use the utility to restore a Time
>>> Machine backup, then you can pick an arbitrary backup to be restored.
>>
>> Just to verify, a TM backup made by Snow Leopard will still be fully
>> readable by El Capitan or Sierra, right? There's no index whose format
>> has changed in recent years or anything like that?
>
> Hmm... Good question. I have computers running 10.6 and 10.11 getting
> backed up with Time Machine. And I don't see a significant difference in
> the data stored on the backup volume. So I wouldn't expect any problems;
> but since I haven't actually restored a 10.6 TM backup to the latest OS
> versions, I can't say with complete certainty you won't have any issues.
> With that said, I don't think you need to worry about the TM backup
> itself being compromised by attempting to restore from it. The restore
> will either work or it won't. If it doesn't work, you still have your
> data backed up if you need to start over.

You can also bypass the TM application and simply dive in to the TM 
backup files and find what may be missing and copy it onto the new 
machine (or updates OS machine).

-- 
"If war is God's way of teaching Americans geography, then
recession is His way of teaching everyone a little economics."
   ..Raj Patel, The Value of Nothing.

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#98701

Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> wrote:

> In article <1mzu4kl.15txfih13yr6omN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>,
> David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> >
> >To restore the Snow Leopard system from a TM backup, you would need to
> >boot from a Snow Leopard install DVD, use the utility to restore a Time
> >Machine backup, then you can pick an arbitrary backup to be restored.
> 
> Just to verify, a TM backup made by Snow Leopard will still be fully
> readable by El Capitan or Sierra, right? There's no index whose format
> has changed in recent years or anything like that?

Readable for _selectively_ restoring older files, yes, using either the
"Enter Time Machine" view or manually using Finder to browse the backup
drive.

The structure of the TM backup has not (yet) changed since its
introduction in Leopard, apart from the addition of new features that
are outside the scope of backups made on Leopard or Snow Leopard.

The two major new features are:

1. Backing up the recovery partition to a directly connected TM drive
(not supported for a networked backup drive such as a Time Capsule).
This was added in Mac OS X 10.7.2 (part way through Lion). The backup
drive can be booted into its copy of the recovery partition, which makes
it easier to restore the computer if the main drive is replaced. The
recovery partition backup is stored in a hidden folder in the
Backups.backupdb folder on the TM backup drive.

2. Local Snapshots. This is used on portable Macs only, and was also
added in Lion. If there is enough free space on your main drive, Time
Machine will keep another backup copy of changed documents on the main
drive, whether or not your backup drive is not connected. (This is
separate from the "Autosave and Versions" mechanism that was introduced
in Lion.) It doesn't involve your backup drive at all so has no impact
on its structure.

You might not be able to do a full system restore of a Snow Leopard
backup using the recovery partition on recent OS versions (I haven't
tried), but you will be able to restore it by booting from the Snow
Leopard install DVD (or the original grey backed install DVD that came
with your computer, for 2010 or 2011 models that are too new to use a
Snow Leopard retail DVD).

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#98704

On 1/16/17 3:38 PM, Patty Winter wrote:
> Just to verify, a TM backup made by Snow Leopard will still be fully
> readable by El Capitan or Sierra, right? There's no index whose format
> has changed in recent years or anything like that?

You could use CarbonCopyCloner or SuperDuper to create a 
cloned backup instead.

It would be "readable" and importable by any version of the 
Setup Assistant or Migration Assistant...

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