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Why is Time Machine doing a full backup?

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  Why is Time Machine doing a full backup? Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> - 2016-11-03 19:39 +0000
    Re: Why is Time Machine doing a full backup? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-11-03 19:56 +0000
      Re: Why is Time Machine doing a full backup? Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> - 2016-11-03 20:33 +0000
        Re: Why is Time Machine doing a full backup? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-11-03 20:39 +0000
        Re: Why is Time Machine doing a full backup? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-11-03 17:12 -0400
        Re: Why is Time Machine doing a full backup? me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2016-11-05 15:27 +0000
    Re: Why is Time Machine doing a full backup? Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> - 2016-11-04 12:47 -0400
      Re: Why is Time Machine doing a full backup? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-11-04 19:26 +0000
        Re: Why is Time Machine doing a full backup? Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> - 2016-11-04 16:52 -0400
          Re: Why is Time Machine doing a full backup? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-11-04 21:48 +0000
            Re: Why is Time Machine doing a full backup? Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> - 2016-11-05 13:08 -0400
              Re: Why is Time Machine doing a full backup? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-11-05 20:08 +0000
                Re: Why is Time Machine doing a full backup? Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> - 2016-11-06 12:33 -0500
                  Re: Why is Time Machine doing a full backup? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-11-07 03:54 +0000
          Re: Why is Time Machine doing a full backup? nj_kruse@me.com (Niels Jørgen Kruse) - 2016-11-05 08:16 +0100
            Re: Why is Time Machine doing a full backup? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-11-05 19:05 +0000
              Re: Why is Time Machine doing a full backup? nj_kruse@me.com (Niels Jørgen Kruse) - 2016-11-05 21:59 +0100
                Re: Why is Time Machine doing a full backup? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-11-05 22:11 +0000
                  Re: Why is Time Machine doing a full backup? nj_kruse@me.com (Niels Jørgen Kruse) - 2016-11-06 13:00 +0100
                    Re: Why is Time Machine doing a full backup? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-11-06 16:08 +0000
              Re: Why is Time Machine doing a full backup? nj_kruse@me.com (Niels Jørgen Kruse) - 2016-11-08 07:04 +0100
                Re: Why is Time Machine doing a full backup? Johnson <null@example.com> - 2016-11-08 08:16 +0000
                  Re: Why is Time Machine doing a full backup? nj_kruse@me.com (Niels Jørgen Kruse) - 2016-11-08 11:44 +0100
                    Re: Why is Time Machine doing a full backup? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-08 10:07 -0500
                  Re: Why is Time Machine doing a full backup? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-11-08 18:22 +0000

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#96426 — Why is Time Machine doing a full backup?

Is it normal for Time Machine to do a full backup after the
Mac has had a major OS upgrade? I just switched from El Capitan
to Sierra last night, and now TM is doing a completely fresh
backup instead of the minor changes I've made to my files in
the past few days.


Patty

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#96428

Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> wrote:
> Is it normal for Time Machine to do a full backup after the
> Mac has had a major OS upgrade? 

Time Machine backs up more than just user files. Upgrading your system
changes many system files on the startup volume. Those need to be backed up
after the upgrade.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#96429

In article <e81j32Fkmj3U1@mid.individual.net>,
Jolly Roger  <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> wrote:
>> Is it normal for Time Machine to do a full backup after the
>> Mac has had a major OS upgrade? 
>
>Time Machine backs up more than just user files. Upgrading your system
>changes many system files on the startup volume. Those need to be backed up
>after the upgrade.

Oh, okay. 12GB worth?


Patty

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#96430

Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> wrote:
> 
> In article <e81j32Fkmj3U1@mid.individual.net>,
> Jolly Roger  <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> wrote:
>>> Is it normal for Time Machine to do a full backup after the
>>> Mac has had a major OS upgrade? 
>> 
>> Time Machine backs up more than just user files. Upgrading your system
>> changes many system files on the startup volume. Those need to be backed up
>> after the upgrade.
> 
> Oh, okay. 12GB worth?

That seems reasonable considering the entire system has changed since the
last backup.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#96438

On 2016-11-03 16:33, Patty Winter wrote:
> In article <e81j32Fkmj3U1@mid.individual.net>,
> Jolly Roger  <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> wrote:
>>> Is it normal for Time Machine to do a full backup after the
>>> Mac has had a major OS upgrade?
>>
>> Time Machine backs up more than just user files. Upgrading your system
>> changes many system files on the startup volume. Those need to be backed up
>> after the upgrade.
>
> Oh, okay. 12GB worth?

I saw about that on one machine after Sierra.  Didn't pay much attention 
to it.


-- 
She hummed to herself because she was an unrivaled botcher of lyrics.
   -Nick (Gone Girl), Gillian Flynn.

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#96489

Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> wrote:
> Oh, okay. 12GB worth?

Sierra is a ~5GB download. These downloads are, of course, compressed. 
12GB of new files is about what I would expect to be contained within a 
5GB download.

-- 
K.

Connection closed by foreign host.

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#96453

In article <nvg3ok$27j$1@dont-email.me>,
 Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> wrote:

> Is it normal for Time Machine to do a full backup after the
> Mac has had a major OS upgrade? I just switched from El Capitan
> to Sierra last night, and now TM is doing a completely fresh
> backup instead of the minor changes I've made to my files in
> the past few days.

Patty-

That happened here a few months ago, but not related to an upgrade.  
After the fresh backup, files that had previously been deleted were no 
longer available.

As best I can tell, there was some kind of corruption of the existing 
backup.  I was tempted to try and avoid the fresh backup, but figured I 
might lose it either way.

Fred

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#96462

Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> wrote:
> In article <nvg3ok$27j$1@dont-email.me>,
>  Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> wrote:
> 
>> Is it normal for Time Machine to do a full backup after the
>> Mac has had a major OS upgrade? I just switched from El Capitan
>> to Sierra last night, and now TM is doing a completely fresh
>> backup instead of the minor changes I've made to my files in
>> the past few days.
> 
> Patty-
> 
> That happened here a few months ago, but not related to an upgrade.  
> After the fresh backup, files that had previously been deleted were no 
> longer available.

That can happen if there isn't much free space left on the backup volume
and Time Machine deletes old copies of files to make room for new ones.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#96465

In article <e845ngF8u75U2@mid.individual.net>,
 Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> wrote:
> > In article <nvg3ok$27j$1@dont-email.me>,
> >  Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> Is it normal for Time Machine to do a full backup after the
> >> Mac has had a major OS upgrade? I just switched from El Capitan
> >> to Sierra last night, and now TM is doing a completely fresh
> >> backup instead of the minor changes I've made to my files in
> >> the past few days.
> > 
> > Patty-
> > 
> > That happened here a few months ago, but not related to an upgrade.  
> > After the fresh backup, files that had previously been deleted were no 
> > longer available.
> 
> That can happen if there isn't much free space left on the backup volume
> and Time Machine deletes old copies of files to make room for new ones.

In my case, it did not just delete a few old files.  It is no longer 
possible to go to dates prior to the date of the fresh backup.  I have a 
Two Terabyte Time Capsule which also contains a 180 GB Laptop backup.  
The current "fresh" desktop backup is 840 GB with 978 GB available.

I am worried that there may be a bad spot on the Time Capsule's drive.  
After all, it has been running continuously for several years.  Maybe 
getting a new Time Capsule would be worthwhile.

Fred

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#96466

Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> wrote:
> In article <e845ngF8u75U2@mid.individual.net>,
>  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> 
>> Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> wrote:
>>> In article <nvg3ok$27j$1@dont-email.me>,
>>> Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Is it normal for Time Machine to do a full backup after the
>>>> Mac has had a major OS upgrade? I just switched from El Capitan
>>>> to Sierra last night, and now TM is doing a completely fresh
>>>> backup instead of the minor changes I've made to my files in
>>>> the past few days.
>>> 
>>> Patty-
>>> 
>>> That happened here a few months ago, but not related to an upgrade.  
>>> After the fresh backup, files that had previously been deleted were no 
>>> longer available.
>> 
>> That can happen if there isn't much free space left on the backup volume
>> and Time Machine deletes old copies of files to make room for new ones.
> 
> In my case, it did not just delete a few old files.  It is no longer 
> possible to go to dates prior to the date of the fresh backup.  

What are the specific circumstances that led to the fresh backup?

> I have a 
> Two Terabyte Time Capsule which also contains a 180 GB Laptop backup.  
> The current "fresh" desktop backup is 840 GB with 978 GB available.

That's plenty of space.

> I am worried that there may be a bad spot on the Time Capsule's drive.  

If there is a problem with the drive, the Time Capsule LED will not be
green after restarting, as documented here:

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202174>

> After all, it has been running continuously for several years.  Maybe 
> getting a new Time Capsule would be worthwhile.

I wouldn't do that unless it was actually warranted.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#96505

In article <e84e11FasqhU1@mid.individual.net>,
 Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> > In my case, it did not just delete a few old files.  It is no longer 
> > possible to go to dates prior to the date of the fresh backup.  
> 
> What are the specific circumstances that led to the fresh backup?

Normally Time Machine does its backups automatically.  One day a message 
popped up saying it wanted to do a complete backup (or something like 
that).  I was worried that it might wipe out the old stuff, so I 
declined.  When I found it was no longer possible to access the Time 
Machine data, I went ahead with the new backup.  (There was no problem 
accessing the Laptop's data.)

> If there is a problem with the drive, the Time Capsule LED will not be
> green after restarting

It is flashing yellow.  It looks like I need to do some Airport Utility 
work.

Fred

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#96521

On 2016-11-05, Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> wrote:
> In article <e84e11FasqhU1@mid.individual.net>,
>  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> > In my case, it did not just delete a few old files.  It is no longer 
>> > possible to go to dates prior to the date of the fresh backup.  
>> 
>> What are the specific circumstances that led to the fresh backup?
>
> Normally Time Machine does its backups automatically.  One day a message 
> popped up saying it wanted to do a complete backup (or something like 
> that).

The cause of the problem can vary depending on the verbatim message. So
unless you can remember it, you're not going to figure much out.

> I was worried that it might wipe out the old stuff, so I 
> declined.  When I found it was no longer possible to access the Time 
> Machine data, I went ahead with the new backup.  (There was no problem 
> accessing the Laptop's data.)

What exactly do you mean by "it was no longer possible to access the
Time Machine data"?

>> If there is a problem with the drive, the Time Capsule LED will not be
>> green after restarting
>
> It is flashing yellow.  It looks like I need to do some Airport Utility 
> work.

Yep. I posted a link to instructions from Apple showing how to check the
disk in a previous reply.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#96584

In article <e86si0FrufbU3@mid.individual.net>,
 Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> > I was worried that it might wipe out the old stuff, so I 
> > declined.  When I found it was no longer possible to access the Time 
> > Machine data, I went ahead with the new backup.  (There was no problem 
> > accessing the Laptop's data.)
> 
> What exactly do you mean by "it was no longer possible to access the
> Time Machine data"?

My memory is getting quite old!  I could not get access to the backup 
file via Time Machine.  Do not recall details.

My purpose for posting was not to solve my problem, but to provide 
another example similar to that of the original poster.  The thread 
seemed to be diverging towards loss of oldest files when the drive 
becomes full.

Fred

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#96605

On 2016-11-06, Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> wrote:
> In article <e86si0FrufbU3@mid.individual.net>,
>  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> > I was worried that it might wipe out the old stuff, so I 
>> > declined.  When I found it was no longer possible to access the Time 
>> > Machine data, I went ahead with the new backup.  (There was no problem 
>> > accessing the Laptop's data.)
>> 
>> What exactly do you mean by "it was no longer possible to access the
>> Time Machine data"?
>
> My memory is getting quite old!  I could not get access to the backup 
> file via Time Machine.  Do not recall details.

Thanks anyway.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#96475

Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> wrote:

> I am worried that there may be a bad spot on the Time Capsule's drive.
> After all, it has been running continuously for several years.  Maybe
> getting a new Time Capsule would be worthwhile.

I am also having problems with time machine backups being started over.
This happens every 3 days or so on a 10.12.1 iMac. An older 10.11.6 iMac
has no problems backing up to the same Time Capsule. I have wiped the
drive of the Time Capsule without effect. The problems started after the
upgrade from 10.12.0 to 10.12.1.

-- 
Mvh./Regards,    Niels Jørgen Kruse,    Vanløse, Denmark

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#96516

Niels Jørgen Kruse <nj_kruse@me.com> wrote:
> Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> wrote:
> 
>> I am worried that there may be a bad spot on the Time Capsule's drive.
>> After all, it has been running continuously for several years.  Maybe
>> getting a new Time Capsule would be worthwhile.
> 
> I am also having problems with time machine backups being started over.
> This happens every 3 days or so on a 10.12.1 iMac. An older 10.11.6 iMac
> has no problems backing up to the same Time Capsule. I have wiped the
> drive of the Time Capsule without effect. The problems started after the
> upgrade from 10.12.0 to 10.12.1.

When it happens you should see a message. It would be helpful to know what
that message says (verbatim).

Also, if you make note of the time the message appears, there should be
messages with time stamps on or near that time in the /var/log/system.log
file giving more detail about the cause of the issue.

Post both here for diagnosis.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#96527

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> Niels Jørgen Kruse <nj_kruse@me.com> wrote:
> > Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> I am worried that there may be a bad spot on the Time Capsule's drive.
> >> After all, it has been running continuously for several years.  Maybe
> >> getting a new Time Capsule would be worthwhile.
> > 
> > I am also having problems with time machine backups being started over.
> > This happens every 3 days or so on a 10.12.1 iMac. An older 10.11.6 iMac
> > has no problems backing up to the same Time Capsule. I have wiped the
> > drive of the Time Capsule without effect. The problems started after the
> > upgrade from 10.12.0 to 10.12.1.
> 
> When it happens you should see a message. It would be helpful to know what
> that message says (verbatim).
> 
> Also, if you make note of the time the message appears, there should be
> messages with time stamps on or near that time in the /var/log/system.log
> file giving more detail about the cause of the issue.
> 
> Post both here for diagnosis.

The message is in Danish, so wouldn't be of much use to you.

The log has this in it:

Nov  5 21:34:00 Tiroth backupd[30588]: objc[30588]: __weak variable at
0x7fd9ebe015f0 holds 0x7fd9ebe00003 instead of 0x7fd9ebe02120. This is
probably incorrect use of objc_storeWeak() and objc_loadWeak(). Break on
objc_weak_error to debug.

Nothing else that seems relevant.

I am going to try a reboot.

-- 
Mvh./Regards,    Niels Jørgen Kruse,    Vanløse, Denmark

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#96532

On 2016-11-05, Niels Jørgen Kruse <nj_kruse@me.com> wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> Niels Jørgen Kruse <nj_kruse@me.com> wrote:
>>> Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I am worried that there may be a bad spot on the Time Capsule's
>>>> drive.  After all, it has been running continuously for several
>>>> years.  Maybe getting a new Time Capsule would be worthwhile.
>>> 
>>> I am also having problems with time machine backups being started
>>> over.  This happens every 3 days or so on a 10.12.1 iMac. An older
>>> 10.11.6 iMac has no problems backing up to the same Time Capsule. I
>>> have wiped the drive of the Time Capsule without effect. The
>>> problems started after the upgrade from 10.12.0 to 10.12.1.
>> 
>> When it happens you should see a message. It would be helpful to know
>> what that message says (verbatim).
>> 
>> Also, if you make note of the time the message appears, there should
>> be messages with time stamps on or near that time in the
>> /var/log/system.log file giving more detail about the cause of the
>> issue.
>> 
>> Post both here for diagnosis.
>
> The message is in Danish, so wouldn't be of much use to you.

Yes it would. Verbatim error messages are *always* better than nebulous
"it said something about blah" hints.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#96575

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2016-11-05, Niels Jørgen Kruse <nj_kruse@me.com> wrote:
> > The message is in Danish, so wouldn't be of much use to you.
> 
> Yes it would. Verbatim error messages are *always* better than nebulous
> "it said something about blah" hints.

Well, then it will have to wait till it comes up again.

How many variants are there anyway?

I have seen 2, one that says the backup has been checked and need to be
replaced and one that raises the suspicion of hardware failure on the
time capsule. The latter is the one that got me to wipe the time
capsule.

-- 
Mvh./Regards,    Niels Jørgen Kruse,    Vanløse, Denmark

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#96581

Niels Jørgen Kruse <nj_kruse@me.com> wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 2016-11-05, Niels Jørgen Kruse <nj_kruse@me.com> wrote:
>>> The message is in Danish, so wouldn't be of much use to you.
>> 
>> Yes it would. Verbatim error messages are *always* better than nebulous
>> "it said something about blah" hints.
> 
> Well, then it will have to wait till it comes up again.
> 
> How many variants are there anyway?

Does it matter? I don't keep a list. *shrug*

> I have seen 2, one that says the backup has been checked and need to be
> replaced and one that raises the suspicion of hardware failure on the
> time capsule. The latter is the one that got me to wipe the time
> capsule.

The messages that are posted to the system log are much more explanatory.
So they are preferable to the message displayed in the dialog box.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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