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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #63105 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2014-08-08 21:36 -0700 |
| Last post | 2014-08-10 19:08 -0700 |
| Articles | 12 on this page of 72 — 10 participants |
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10.6 no longer boots. Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-08-08 21:36 -0700
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-08-09 15:37 +0000
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2014-08-09 11:20 -0700
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-08-09 17:20 -0700
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2014-08-09 22:31 -0700
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-08-10 11:35 -0700
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-08-10 18:50 +0000
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-08-10 11:53 -0700
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-08-10 18:55 +0000
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> - 2014-08-10 15:09 -0400
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-08-10 12:24 -0700
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> - 2014-08-10 21:26 -0400
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2014-08-10 19:30 -0700
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-08-10 22:36 -0400
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> - 2014-08-11 01:43 -0400
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2014-08-11 09:54 -0600
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-08-11 12:12 -0400
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> - 2014-08-11 15:49 -0400
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-08-12 09:21 +1200
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> - 2014-08-11 18:32 -0400
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-08-11 23:17 +0000
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> - 2014-08-11 23:28 -0400
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-08-12 16:14 +1200
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> - 2014-08-12 01:40 -0400
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> - 2014-08-12 14:21 -0400
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-08-13 09:16 +1200
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-08-12 13:26 +1200
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-08-11 21:35 -0400
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> - 2014-08-11 23:31 -0400
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-08-12 16:12 +1200
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-08-12 00:31 -0400
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> - 2014-08-12 01:40 -0400
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-08-12 17:57 +1200
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-08-12 02:54 -0400
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> - 2014-08-12 03:14 -0400
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2014-10-16 22:46 -0600
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-17 01:09 -0400
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> - 2014-10-17 02:35 -0400
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> - 2014-10-17 02:48 -0400
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-10-18 01:42 +0000
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2014-10-17 01:45 -0600
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> - 2014-10-17 06:27 -0400
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2014-10-17 08:14 -0600
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-17 10:55 -0400
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2014-10-17 10:12 -0600
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-17 12:41 -0400
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2014-10-18 12:25 -0600
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-18 14:49 -0400
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-17 10:54 -0400
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> - 2014-10-19 05:32 -0400
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-08-11 14:11 +0000
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-08-11 14:56 +0000
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2014-08-11 09:54 -0600
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-08-11 16:25 +0000
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2014-08-12 21:03 -0700
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-08-13 15:10 +0000
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-08-13 09:52 -0700
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> - 2014-08-13 14:37 -0400
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-08-13 11:50 -0700
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-08-13 11:51 -0700
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2014-08-14 10:17 -0600
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2014-08-14 20:43 -0700
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2014-08-11 14:39 -0500
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-08-11 23:15 +0000
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> - 2014-08-11 15:52 -0400
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2014-08-11 14:30 -0600
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> - 2014-08-11 18:42 -0400
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-08-10 20:32 +0000
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-08-10 14:25 -0700
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> - 2014-08-10 21:26 -0400
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-08-11 01:32 +0000
Re: 10.6 no longer boots. Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-08-10 19:08 -0700
Page 4 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4]
| From | nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-08-14 10:17 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <1lqd5oq.tbolosur4xn0N%nmassello@yahoo.com> |
| In reply to | #63201 |
Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> wrote: > It takes a very long time to restore. An older Drobo FS with 5 TB on it > will struggle to produce 10 MB/sec. If you can only afford one backup, > then you essentially have no backup at all during the time it takes to > rebuild your main system. That's why recovery, even if you need to sync > from backup to fix damage, is far preferred to rebuilding. Have you ever used DiskWarrior on a 5TB volume? How long did it take?
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| From | Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-08-14 20:43 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <mcmurtrie-AB376B.20434014082014@news.sonic.net> |
| In reply to | #63216 |
In article <1lqd5oq.tbolosur4xn0N%nmassello@yahoo.com>, nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) wrote: > Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> wrote: > > > It takes a very long time to restore. An older Drobo FS with 5 TB on it > > will struggle to produce 10 MB/sec. If you can only afford one backup, > > then you essentially have no backup at all during the time it takes to > > rebuild your main system. That's why recovery, even if you need to sync > > from backup to fix damage, is far preferred to rebuilding. > > Have you ever used DiskWarrior on a 5TB volume? How long did it take? DiskWarrior crashes or says it's out of memory on much smaller volumes. fsck_hfs can do it in about 4 hours, given a large enough cache. -- Astraweb posts are filtered as spam
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| From | George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-08-11 14:39 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <D00E863A.AE678%ghost_topper@hotmail.com> |
| In reply to | #63149 |
On 8/11/14 10:54 AM, in article 1lq7k28.1le6c2n20ivnkN%nmassello@yahoo.com, "Neill Massello" <nmassello@yahoo.com> wrote: > FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I take it you don't have something like Diskwarrior... I've >> resurrected drives that wouldn't boot with DW before. >> >> It's expensive, and a one-trick pony - but it does what it does very >> well. Their tech support will even give you a password that will >> unlock hidden diagnostics within the program for specific needs. >> >> I've heard of cases where it's run for hours, or even days to fix >> problems on a drive. > > Better to spend hours restoring from a backup than days on a recovery > procedure that might not succeed. DiskWarrior is not a substitute for a > backup. Nothing is. At this point, Drive Genius is a better buy. > Sorry, that is just plain WRONG! DW has saved my and my friends' ass MANY times when NOTHING else could come close. Nothing can fix Directories like DW, period.
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-08-11 23:15 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <c4t14aFqpk9U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #63152 |
On 2014-08-11, George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> wrote: > On 8/11/14 10:54 AM, in article 1lq7k28.1le6c2n20ivnkN%nmassello@yahoo.com, > "Neill Massello" <nmassello@yahoo.com> wrote: >> FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I take it you don't have something like Diskwarrior... I've >>> resurrected drives that wouldn't boot with DW before. >>> >>> It's expensive, and a one-trick pony - but it does what it does very >>> well. Their tech support will even give you a password that will >>> unlock hidden diagnostics within the program for specific needs. >>> >>> I've heard of cases where it's run for hours, or even days to fix >>> problems on a drive. >> >> Better to spend hours restoring from a backup than days on a recovery >> procedure that might not succeed. DiskWarrior is not a substitute for a >> backup. Nothing is. At this point, Drive Genius is a better buy. > > Sorry, that is just plain WRONG! > > DW has saved my and my friends' ass MANY times when NOTHING else could come > close. > > Nothing can fix Directories like DW, period. Erasing and restoring from backup works just as well - nothing "wrong" about it. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-08-11 15:52 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <lsb6uj$aag$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #63149 |
On 2014-08-11 15:54:34 +0000, nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) said: > FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I take it you don't have something like Diskwarrior... I've >> resurrected drives that wouldn't boot with DW before. >> >> It's expensive, and a one-trick pony - but it does what it does very >> well. Their tech support will even give you a password that will >> unlock hidden diagnostics within the program for specific needs. >> >> I've heard of cases where it's run for hours, or even days to fix >> problems on a drive. > > Better to spend hours restoring from a backup than days on a recovery > procedure that might not succeed. DiskWarrior is not a substitute for a > backup. Nothing is. At this point, Drive Genius is a better buy. And you're telling ME this why? I'm the guy who said: > Really, backing up BEFORE you had a disk problem was the first, last > and only thing you really needed to do. > At this point, if you're fucked, you're fucked. You'll get no argument here... I'm a religious fundamentalist when it comes to backups. -- It's not hard to meet expenses - they're everywhere.
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| From | nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-08-11 14:30 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <1lq7wnz.1h8qizp16q8ermN%nmassello@yahoo.com> |
| In reply to | #63154 |
FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> wrote: > And you're telling ME this why? Because at this point in the discussion, it's pretty clear that volume repair will probably be a waste of the OP's time, even if it doesn't take hours and hours. Some _data_ crucial to booting seems to be damaged, and volume repair probably won't fix it. The OP's most sensible course of action would seem to be: recover as much from the volume as possible, erase the volume and do a surface scan, reinstall 10.6, and copy all the other (non-OS) files back to the fresh volume. DiskWarrior won't be as useful for any of these tasks as other (cheaper) software.
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| From | FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-08-11 18:42 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <lsbgs7$ck7$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #63158 |
On 2014-08-11 20:30:35 +0000, nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) said: > FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> wrote: > >> And you're telling ME this why? > > Because at this point in the discussion, it's pretty clear that volume > repair will probably be a waste of the OP's time, even if it doesn't > take hours and hours. Some _data_ crucial to booting seems to be > damaged, and volume repair probably won't fix it. > > The OP's most sensible course of action would seem to be: recover as > much from the volume as possible, erase the volume and do a surface > scan, reinstall 10.6, and copy all the other (non-OS) files back to the > fresh volume. DiskWarrior won't be as useful for any of these tasks as > other (cheaper) software. I didn't get that from: > The 10.6 partition is on the same disk as the 10.7, and the 10.7 boots. > Also the > partition is available once booted in 10.7. So it's not mechanical but > something > about the disk contents or the PRAM (not yet tested). The OP stated: > Any ideas why a 10.6 partition would no longer boot? Disk Utility says it is > bootable. and then: > So once I have a copy in addition to Time Machine I > can fiddle with the internal drive. So I figured maybe he wanted to try a few things before taking the final option, that's all. Otherwise, he would have just done that in the first place, instead of asking for suggestions, no? -- Never judge a man till you've walked a mile in his shoes. By then, you're a mile away, you've got his shoes,and you can say whatever the hell you want.
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-08-10 20:32 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <c4q36gF7u89U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #63124 |
On 2014-08-10, Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> wrote: > In article <mcmurtrie-3871F7.22313309082014@news.sonic.net>, > Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> wrote: > >> Try booting into single user mode and fully reading the disk device >> with 'dd' or one of the 'fsck' options. I've had bad experiences >> with Hitachi failing while still reporting a good SMART status. >> MacOS X rarely reports fatal disk I/O errors on its own. > > I finally got the 64-bit 10.6 up again, but then it failed on reboot, > so, crap, that means a race condition (unlikely) or a flakey disk or > disk sector. Oh, well. I got an external disk with more than enough > spare room, so I can copying off to a spare and all that kind of > nonsense. Oh, mother pus bucket. This would be a great time to consider using Time Machine for backups, if you aren't already. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-08-10 14:25 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <chine.bleu-7B46E2.14254710082014@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #63131 |
In article <c4q36gF7u89U1@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote: > On 2014-08-10, Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> wrote: > > In article <mcmurtrie-3871F7.22313309082014@news.sonic.net>, > > Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> wrote: > > > >> Try booting into single user mode and fully reading the disk device > >> with 'dd' or one of the 'fsck' options. I've had bad experiences > >> with Hitachi failing while still reporting a good SMART status. > >> MacOS X rarely reports fatal disk I/O errors on its own. > > > > I finally got the 64-bit 10.6 up again, but then it failed on reboot, > > so, crap, that means a race condition (unlikely) or a flakey disk or > > disk sector. Oh, well. I got an external disk with more than enough > > spare room, so I can copying off to a spare and all that kind of > > nonsense. Oh, mother pus bucket. > > This would be a great time to consider using Time Machine for backups, > if you aren't already. Yes, but I get paranoid about disk drives. -- :-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' Icke's razor: Given two equally plausible explanations, choose the weirder.
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| From | FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-08-10 21:26 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ls964k$tth$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #63132 |
On 2014-08-10 21:25:56 +0000, Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> said: > In article <c4q36gF7u89U1@mid.individual.net>, > Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote: > >> On 2014-08-10, Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> In article <mcmurtrie-3871F7.22313309082014@news.sonic.net>, >>> Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> wrote: >>> >>>> Try booting into single user mode and fully reading the disk device >>>> with 'dd' or one of the 'fsck' options. I've had bad experiences >>>> with Hitachi failing while still reporting a good SMART status. >>>> MacOS X rarely reports fatal disk I/O errors on its own. >>> >>> I finally got the 64-bit 10.6 up again, but then it failed on reboot, >>> so, crap, that means a race condition (unlikely) or a flakey disk or >>> disk sector. Oh, well. I got an external disk with more than enough >>> spare room, so I can copying off to a spare and all that kind of >>> nonsense. Oh, mother pus bucket. >> >> This would be a great time to consider using Time Machine for backups, >> if you aren't already. > > Yes, but I get paranoid about disk drives. All the more reason... -- If your only tool is a hammer, everything begins to look like a nail.
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-08-11 01:32 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <c4qkoqFb9caU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #63132 |
On 2014-08-10, Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> wrote: > In article <c4q36gF7u89U1@mid.individual.net>, > Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote: > >> On 2014-08-10, Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > In article <mcmurtrie-3871F7.22313309082014@news.sonic.net>, >> > Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> wrote: >> > >> >> Try booting into single user mode and fully reading the disk device >> >> with 'dd' or one of the 'fsck' options. I've had bad experiences >> >> with Hitachi failing while still reporting a good SMART status. >> >> MacOS X rarely reports fatal disk I/O errors on its own. >> > >> > I finally got the 64-bit 10.6 up again, but then it failed on reboot, >> > so, crap, that means a race condition (unlikely) or a flakey disk or >> > disk sector. Oh, well. I got an external disk with more than enough >> > spare room, so I can copying off to a spare and all that kind of >> > nonsense. Oh, mother pus bucket. >> >> This would be a great time to consider using Time Machine for backups, >> if you aren't already. > > Yes, but I get paranoid about disk drives. I'm not following your logic. Your computer has a hard drive inside of it. That hard drive can and *will* fail. It's only a matter of when. I am suggesting you connect another hard drive to your computer to serve as a Time Machine backup of the internal drive. If you are paranoid about hard drives, you should feel *safer* having an up-to-date backup of all of the important data on that drive. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-08-10 19:08 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <chine.bleu-D15909.19085110082014@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #63137 |
In article <c4qkoqFb9caU2@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote: > On 2014-08-10, Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> wrote: > > In article <c4q36gF7u89U1@mid.individual.net>, > > Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote: > > > >> On 2014-08-10, Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> > In article <mcmurtrie-3871F7.22313309082014@news.sonic.net>, > >> > Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> wrote: > >> > > >> >> Try booting into single user mode and fully reading the disk device > >> >> with 'dd' or one of the 'fsck' options. I've had bad experiences > >> >> with Hitachi failing while still reporting a good SMART status. > >> >> MacOS X rarely reports fatal disk I/O errors on its own. > >> > > >> > I finally got the 64-bit 10.6 up again, but then it failed on reboot, > >> > so, crap, that means a race condition (unlikely) or a flakey disk or > >> > disk sector. Oh, well. I got an external disk with more than enough > >> > spare room, so I can copying off to a spare and all that kind of > >> > nonsense. Oh, mother pus bucket. > >> > >> This would be a great time to consider using Time Machine for backups, > >> if you aren't already. > > > > Yes, but I get paranoid about disk drives. > > I'm not following your logic. Your computer has a hard drive inside of > it. That hard drive can and *will* fail. It's only a matter of when. I > am suggesting you connect another hard drive to your computer to serve > as a Time Machine backup of the internal drive. If you are paranoid > about hard drives, you should feel *safer* having an up-to-date backup > of all of the important data on that drive. I am using Time Machine. And I have a third drive with enough capacity to copy all of the internal drive. So once I have a copy in addition to Time Machine I can fiddle with the internal drive. -- :-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' Icke's razor: Given two equally plausible explanations, choose the weirder.
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