Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #82265 > unrolled thread

Holding down a key does not show repeating inputted characters?

Started by	ANTant@zimage.com (Ant)
First post	2015-10-07 12:43 -0500
Last post	2015-10-07 16:38 -0700
Articles	20 on this page of 129 — 14 participants

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#82658

From	Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date	2015-10-08 17:42 -0700
Message-ID	<D23C5B71.5F973%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to	#82656

On 10/8/15, 5:25 PM, in article 081020152025017275%nospam@nospam.invalid,
"nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <D23C55CE.5F95A%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> 
>>>> But I digress. When users who were used to just a keyboard first were
>>>> confronted with a mouse it was not "intuitive". Why would I move this thing
>>>> on the desk, which you oddly call a mouse, to make an arrow on a screen
>>>> move?
>>> 
>>> It is intuitive. People, even little kids, work that out within seconds
>>> without needing a manual or explanation, although some may take longer
>>> to get efficient at it.
>> 
>> The idea of the mouse moving the mouse pointer is fairly intuitive... people
>> figure that out. But when to click vs. double-click vs. right-click. I have
>> seen people be quite confused by that.
> 
> now they are. when mice first came out, they weren't at all intuitive.

Right. Or at least for most. I still sometimes teach seniors who have little
or no computing experience.

Might explain why I am so patient with some in Usenet. :)
 
> apple even included a mouse tutorial with early macs.
> 
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pwammW5syw&t=118>
> 
> <http://gizmodo.com/heres-how-a-macintosh-tutorial-taught-people-to-use-
> a-m-1583366354>



-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

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#82675

From	Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date	2015-10-09 16:23 +1300
Message-ID	<091020151623277892%YourName@YourISP.com>
In reply to	#82658

In article <D23C5B71.5F973%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
<usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> On 10/8/15, 5:25 PM, in article 081020152025017275%nospam@nospam.invalid,
> "nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> > In article <D23C55CE.5F95A%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
> > <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>> But I digress. When users who were used to just a keyboard first were
> >>>> confronted with a mouse it was not "intuitive". Why would I move this
> >>>> thing on the desk, which you oddly call a mouse, to make an arrow on 
> >>>> a screen move?
> >>> 
> >>> It is intuitive. People, even little kids, work that out within seconds
> >>> without needing a manual or explanation, although some may take longer
> >>> to get efficient at it.
> >> 
> >> The idea of the mouse moving the mouse pointer is fairly intuitive...
> >> people figure that out. But when to click vs. double-click vs. right-click.
> >> I have seen people be quite confused by that.
> > 
> > now they are. when mice first came out, they weren't at all intuitive.
> 
> Right. Or at least for most. I still sometimes teach seniors who have little
> or no computing experience.

So do I and all of them so far have been figure out how to basically
use a mouse* by themselves, although as I said, they may take a while
(or even never) to get proficient at using it. Even little kids can use
one with no instruction. That's because it *IS* intuitive.


* By "mouse" I mean a Mac mouse with one button, because that's all
  that is really needed. Once you add a second button, that can easily 
  confuse people.

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#82678

From	Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date	2015-10-08 20:42 -0700
Message-ID	<D23C85A1.5F9C7%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to	#82675

On 10/8/15, 8:23 PM, in article 091020151623277892%YourName@YourISP.com,
"Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> In article <D23C5B71.5F973%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> On 10/8/15, 5:25 PM, in article 081020152025017275%nospam@nospam.invalid,
>> "nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>> In article <D23C55CE.5F95A%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> But I digress. When users who were used to just a keyboard first were
>>>>>> confronted with a mouse it was not "intuitive". Why would I move this
>>>>>> thing on the desk, which you oddly call a mouse, to make an arrow on
>>>>>> a screen move?
>>>>> 
>>>>> It is intuitive. People, even little kids, work that out within seconds
>>>>> without needing a manual or explanation, although some may take longer
>>>>> to get efficient at it.
>>>> 
>>>> The idea of the mouse moving the mouse pointer is fairly intuitive...
>>>> people figure that out. But when to click vs. double-click vs. right-click.
>>>> I have seen people be quite confused by that.
>>> 
>>> now they are. when mice first came out, they weren't at all intuitive.
>> 
>> Right. Or at least for most. I still sometimes teach seniors who have little
>> or no computing experience.
> 
> So do I and all of them so far have been figure out how to basically
> use a mouse* by themselves, although as I said, they may take a while
> (or even never) to get proficient at using it. Even little kids can use
> one with no instruction. That's because it *IS* intuitive.

I am still curious to see your evidence that 3D Touch is not.

...



-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

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#82760

From	AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net>
Date	2015-10-09 12:27 -0400
Message-ID	<mv8pu2$tc5$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#82675

On 10/8/15, 23:23, Your Name wrote:
> In article<D23C5B71.5F973%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>  wrote:
>> On 10/8/15, 5:25 PM, in article 081020152025017275%nospam@nospam.invalid,
>> "nospam"<nospam@nospam.invalid>  wrote:
>>> In article<D23C55CE.5F95A%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I digress. When users who were used to just a keyboard first were
>>>>>> confronted with a mouse it was not "intuitive". Why would I move this
>>>>>> thing on the desk, which you oddly call a mouse, to make an arrow on
>>>>>> a screen move?
>>>>>
>>>>> It is intuitive. People, even little kids, work that out within seconds
>>>>> without needing a manual or explanation, although some may take longer
>>>>> to get efficient at it.
>>>>
>>>> The idea of the mouse moving the mouse pointer is fairly intuitive...
>>>> people figure that out. But when to click vs. double-click vs. right-click.
>>>> I have seen people be quite confused by that.
>>>
>>> now they are. when mice first came out, they weren't at all intuitive.
>>
>> Right. Or at least for most. I still sometimes teach seniors who have little
>> or no computing experience.
>
> So do I and all of them so far have been figure out how to basically
> use a mouse* by themselves, although as I said, they may take a while
> (or even never) to get proficient at using it. Even little kids can use
> one with no instruction. That's because it *IS* intuitive.


No, kids don't have a problem because it is intuitive but because they 
don't have years of using various devices with various, contradictory 
methods of usage. It is their inexperience that makes the first device 
they use unquestioningly easy.


Older persons aren't lazy dullards, although there is a barrier to 
forming new habits after reaching great age.


>
>
> * By "mouse" I mean a Mac mouse with one button, because that's all
>    that is really needed. Once you add a second button, that can easily
>    confuse people.


-- 
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++
||Arnold VICTOR, New York City, i. e., <arvimideQ@Wearthlink.net>    ||
||Arnoldo VIKTORO, Nov-jorkurbo, t. e., <arvimideQ@Wearthlink.net>   ||
||Remove capital letters from e-mail address for correct address/    ||
||    Forigu majusklajn literojn el e-poŝta adreso por ĝusta adreso  ||
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++

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#82809

From	Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu>
Date	2015-10-09 14:29 -0400
Message-ID	<barmar-24F20E.14292309102015@88-209-239-213.giganet.hu>
In reply to	#82760

In article <mv8pu2$tc5$1@news.albasani.net>,
 AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> wrote:

> On 10/8/15, 23:23, Your Name wrote:
> > In article<D23C5B71.5F973%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
> > <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>  wrote:
> >> On 10/8/15, 5:25 PM, in article 081020152025017275%nospam@nospam.invalid,
> >> "nospam"<nospam@nospam.invalid>  wrote:
> >>> In article<D23C55CE.5F95A%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
> >>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>  wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> But I digress. When users who were used to just a keyboard first were
> >>>>>> confronted with a mouse it was not "intuitive". Why would I move this
> >>>>>> thing on the desk, which you oddly call a mouse, to make an arrow on
> >>>>>> a screen move?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It is intuitive. People, even little kids, work that out within seconds
> >>>>> without needing a manual or explanation, although some may take longer
> >>>>> to get efficient at it.
> >>>>
> >>>> The idea of the mouse moving the mouse pointer is fairly intuitive...
> >>>> people figure that out. But when to click vs. double-click vs. 
> >>>> right-click.
> >>>> I have seen people be quite confused by that.
> >>>
> >>> now they are. when mice first came out, they weren't at all intuitive.
> >>
> >> Right. Or at least for most. I still sometimes teach seniors who have 
> >> little
> >> or no computing experience.
> >
> > So do I and all of them so far have been figure out how to basically
> > use a mouse* by themselves, although as I said, they may take a while
> > (or even never) to get proficient at using it. Even little kids can use
> > one with no instruction. That's because it *IS* intuitive.
> 
> 
> No, kids don't have a problem because it is intuitive but because they 
> don't have years of using various devices with various, contradictory 
> methods of usage. It is their inexperience that makes the first device 
> they use unquestioningly easy.
> 
> 
> Older persons aren't lazy dullards, although there is a barrier to 
> forming new habits after reaching great age.

It sounds like you're suggesting that older people have alternate 
experience that they need to "unlearn" in order to be able to use a 
mouse. What devices would those be that they're used to, and make it 
hard to learn to use a mouse.

When I watch my 70-something mother use a mouse, he biggest problem she 
seems to have is when she wants to move further than there's room on her 
mousepad. She knows she has to go back in the other direction, but she's 
not good at picking it up while doing this, so the pointer ends up 
backing up as well, defeating the purpose.

She also has a hard time knowing when to single- or double-click. I 
ended up teaching her to first try single-clicking, and if that doesn't 
do anything try double-clicking, and that was good enough.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

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#82858

From	Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date	2015-10-09 14:02 -0700
Message-ID	<D23D797C.5FB97%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to	#82809

On 10/9/15, 11:29 AM, in article
barmar-24F20E.14292309102015@88-209-239-213.giganet.hu, "Barry Margolin"
<barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

...
>>>> Right. Or at least for most. I still sometimes teach seniors who have
>>>> little
>>>> or no computing experience.
>>> 
>>> So do I and all of them so far have been figure out how to basically
>>> use a mouse* by themselves, although as I said, they may take a while
>>> (or even never) to get proficient at using it. Even little kids can use
>>> one with no instruction. That's because it *IS* intuitive.
>> 
>> 
>> No, kids don't have a problem because it is intuitive but because they
>> don't have years of using various devices with various, contradictory
>> methods of usage. It is their inexperience that makes the first device
>> they use unquestioningly easy.
>> 
>> 
>> Older persons aren't lazy dullards, although there is a barrier to
>> forming new habits after reaching great age.
> 
> It sounds like you're suggesting that older people have alternate
> experience that they need to "unlearn" in order to be able to use a
> mouse. What devices would those be that they're used to, and make it
> hard to learn to use a mouse.

They just have not worked with computers much and the whole experience can
be overwhelming. Many examples of them using it fine, but also many where
they do not even see windows as younger people do. It is one of the risks I
see with Windows 10 and in some areas OS X - the front window is not
differentiated enough.

> When I watch my 70-something mother use a mouse, he biggest problem she
> seems to have is when she wants to move further than there's room on her
> mousepad. She knows she has to go back in the other direction, but she's
> not good at picking it up while doing this, so the pointer ends up
> backing up as well, defeating the purpose.

Yes, I have seen this a lot. It takes practice. Those of us who use
computers a lot forget how much we take for granted.

> She also has a hard time knowing when to single- or double-click. I
> ended up teaching her to first try single-clicking, and if that doesn't
> do anything try double-clicking, and that was good enough.

I have used the same advice.

-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

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#82868

From	AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net>
Date	2015-10-09 18:32 -0400
Message-ID	<mv9f97$680$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#82809

On 10/9/15, 14:29, Barry Margolin wrote:
> In article<mv8pu2$tc5$1@news.albasani.net>,
>   AV3<arvimide@earthlink.net>  wrote:
>
>> On 10/8/15, 23:23, Your Name wrote:
>>> In article<D23C5B71.5F973%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>   wrote:
>>>> On 10/8/15, 5:25 PM, in article 081020152025017275%nospam@nospam.invalid,
>>>> "nospam"<nospam@nospam.invalid>   wrote:
>>>>> In article<D23C55CE.5F95A%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>   wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But I digress. When users who were used to just a keyboard first were
>>>>>>>> confronted with a mouse it was not "intuitive". Why would I move this
>>>>>>>> thing on the desk, which you oddly call a mouse, to make an arrow on
>>>>>>>> a screen move?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is intuitive. People, even little kids, work that out within seconds
>>>>>>> without needing a manual or explanation, although some may take longer
>>>>>>> to get efficient at it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The idea of the mouse moving the mouse pointer is fairly intuitive...
>>>>>> people figure that out. But when to click vs. double-click vs.
>>>>>> right-click.
>>>>>> I have seen people be quite confused by that.
>>>>>
>>>>> now they are. when mice first came out, they weren't at all intuitive.
>>>>
>>>> Right. Or at least for most. I still sometimes teach seniors who have
>>>> little
>>>> or no computing experience.
>>>
>>> So do I and all of them so far have been figure out how to basically
>>> use a mouse* by themselves, although as I said, they may take a while
>>> (or even never) to get proficient at using it. Even little kids can use
>>> one with no instruction. That's because it *IS* intuitive.
>>
>>
>> No, kids don't have a problem because it is intuitive but because they
>> don't have years of using various devices with various, contradictory
>> methods of usage. It is their inexperience that makes the first device
>> they use unquestioningly easy.
>>
>>
>> Older persons aren't lazy dullards, although there is a barrier to
>> forming new habits after reaching great age.
>
> It sounds like you're suggesting that older people have alternate
> experience that they need to "unlearn" in order to be able to use a
> mouse. What devices would those be that they're used to, and make it
> hard to learn to use a mouse.


It's not so much similar devices but right-left choice of control. The 
mouse would be a completely unfamiliar kind of control device, which she 
has to learn from the start. She might use a quite different kind of 
clicker to control her TV or other electronic devices.


>
> When I watch my 70-something mother use a mouse, he biggest problem she
> seems to have is when she wants to move further than there's room on her
> mousepad. She knows she has to go back in the other direction, but she's
> not good at picking it up while doing this, so the pointer ends up
> backing up as well, defeating the purpose.
>
> She also has a hard time knowing when to single- or double-click. I
> ended up teaching her to first try single-clicking, and if that doesn't
> do anything try double-clicking, and that was good enough.
>


I think 70 is when diminished muscle control and arthritis start 
affecting the hands. You have to exercise precise control to get the 
mouse to move the arrow to the exact spot you need to have it. And there 
can be no muscle tremor to affect its location when you click.


-- 
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++
||Arnold VICTOR, New York City, i. e., <arvimideQ@Wearthlink.net>    ||
||Arnoldo VIKTORO, Nov-jorkurbo, t. e., <arvimideQ@Wearthlink.net>   ||
||Remove capital letters from e-mail address for correct address/    ||
||    Forigu majusklajn literojn el e-poŝta adreso por ĝusta adreso  ||
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++

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#82746

From	Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com>
Date	2015-10-09 11:12 -0400
Message-ID	<5617d970$0$4106$c3e8da3$12bcf670@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to	#82658

In article <D23C5B71.5F973%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>,
 Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> Right. Or at least for most. I still sometimes teach seniors who have little
> or no computing experience.
> 
> Might explain why I am so patient with some in Usenet. :)

This reminds of the scene in one of the Star Trek movies where they go 
back in time and Scottie picks up a computer's mouse and talks into it, 
"Computer," he says.
-- 
Where's the Vangelis music?
Pris' tongue is sticking out in in the wide shot after Batty has kissed her.
They have put back more tits into the Zhora dressing  room scene.
  -- notes for Blade Runner

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#82781

From	Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date	2015-10-09 10:17 -0700
Message-ID	<D23D44C0.5FAD8%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to	#82746

On 10/9/15, 8:12 AM, in article
5617d970$0$4106$c3e8da3$12bcf670@news.astraweb.com, "Warren Oates"
<warren.oates@gmail.com> wrote:

> In article <D23C5B71.5F973%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>,
>  Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> 
>> Right. Or at least for most. I still sometimes teach seniors who have little
>> or no computing experience.
>> 
>> Might explain why I am so patient with some in Usenet. :)
> 
> This reminds of the scene in one of the Star Trek movies where they go
> back in time and Scottie picks up a computer's mouse and talks into it,
> "Computer," he says.

I thought of linking to a YouTube video of that. :)


-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

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#82660

From	Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date	2015-10-09 13:49 +1300
Message-ID	<091020151349295021%YourName@YourISP.com>
In reply to	#82654

In article <D23C55CE.5F95A%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
<usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> On 10/8/15, 1:06 PM, in article 091020150906060868%YourName@YourISP.com,
> "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> 
> ...
> >>>> But it's not intuitive. No novice user is ever going to try pressing
> >>>> the screen or trackpad harder.
> >>> 
> >>> Bull. They have only have to see it once to get it. It's not a complex
> >>> concept at all.
> >> 
> >> I worked in computer labs when mice first started becoming popular. Macs
> >> had
> >> them and our UNIX stations had them - even light-based ones, which confused
> >> people so I put up a sign saying "UNIX mice have no balls". My boss had me
> >> that that down for some reason. :)
> >> 
> >> But I digress. When users who were used to just a keyboard first were
> >> confronted with a mouse it was not "intuitive". Why would I move this thing
> >> on the desk, which you oddly call a mouse, to make an arrow on a screen
> >> move?
> > 
> > It is intuitive. People, even little kids, work that out within seconds
> > without needing a manual or explanation, although some may take longer
> > to get efficient at it.
> 
> The idea of the mouse moving the mouse pointer is fairly intuitive... people
> figure that out. But when to click vs. double-click vs. right-click. I have
> seen people be quite confused by that.
> 
> >> And why would I click its left button to do one thing and its right
> >> button to do another?
> > 
> > Which is exactly why the Mac only had (and only needed) one button mice
> > for years ... they still only need one button.
> 
> Sure. But contextual menus are good.... and the middle button ALSO works to
> do still more. Then you have option clicking. Lots of different things which
> are not intuitive.

Useful to some people, but they aren't necessary to use the computer.

Every Mac I set-up for novice users there's a series of things I change
- one of which is to turn off the right-click button. They won't use
its or need it, and it simply confuses people (as you said).




> >> None of that is "intuitive" until you get used to a computer.
> >> 
> >> I suspect 3D Touch / Force Touch is much the same.
> > 
> > Pushing something harder to make it do something different is *not* in
> > any remote sense intuitive.
> 
> When I draw with pencil or charcoal if I push harder I get a different
> result. 

You're not drawing with a pencil (at least not until Apple releases the
iPad Pro, and that has a pressure sensitive Pencil stylus anyway). I'm
talking about using standard computer or electronic interfaces.



> And as I said above, the idea on a computer UI is not to make it just like
> something else. In the physical world I have never opened a folder to get to
> a window, nor used a menu of any sort to rename a file. I have never grabbed
> a mouse to move other than the mouse.

The idea of a user interface is to make it as easy and as intuitive to
use as possible ... pressing hard is NOT intuitive to anyone.



> > It's highly counter-intuitive (as are most of the silly multi-finger
> > gestures) - you don't push light switches harder, pushing hard on glass
> > is dangerous, etc. 
> 
> What dangers do you think people will experience from getting to a
> contextual menu or getting a quick look at content?

Dangerous in the sense of breaking the glass ... try pushing "harder"
on your window and see what happens. Trying pushing harder on your
light switch or door handle and you'll likely break it (I know, I've
broken my car's door handle and it'll cost about $300 to repair it!!).



> > That's why people don't know about them and have to be told. Intuitive
> > means you don't have to be told, you work it out naturally.
> 
> You did not learn to type naturally. Should computers not have keyboards?

Typing is intuitive as well ... you press a key with an "a" on it and
you get an "a" on the screen (or piece of paper in terms of ye olde
typewriter).

Yes, a stylus is more intuitive (hence Apple's Newton years ago), but
it's more cumbersome as a computer input device, especially with some
people's scrawly handwriting. Speech is even more intuitive, hence
Apple's Siri, but again is cumbersome as a computer interface due to
the variety of languages, accents, etc.

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#82661

From	nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date	2015-10-08 20:52 -0400
Message-ID	<081020152052416897%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to	#82660

In article <091020151349295021%YourName@YourISP.com>, Your Name
<YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> > > It's highly counter-intuitive (as are most of the silly multi-finger
> > > gestures) - you don't push light switches harder, pushing hard on glass
> > > is dangerous, etc. 
> > 
> > What dangers do you think people will experience from getting to a
> > contextual menu or getting a quick look at content?
> 
> Dangerous in the sense of breaking the glass ... try pushing "harder"
> on your window and see what happens. Trying pushing harder on your
> light switch or door handle and you'll likely break it (I know, I've
> broken my car's door handle and it'll cost about $300 to repair it!!).

you must be kidding. nobody can be that stupid.

the amount of pressure to break a 3" piece of glass that does't flex at
all is far more than you are going to be able to apply with a finger.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#82663

From	Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date	2015-10-08 18:02 -0700
Message-ID	<D23C604C.5F983%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to	#82661

On 10/8/15, 5:52 PM, in article 081020152052416897%nospam@nospam.invalid,
"nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <091020151349295021%YourName@YourISP.com>, Your Name
> <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> 
>>>> It's highly counter-intuitive (as are most of the silly multi-finger
>>>> gestures) - you don't push light switches harder, pushing hard on glass
>>>> is dangerous, etc.
>>> 
>>> What dangers do you think people will experience from getting to a
>>> contextual menu or getting a quick look at content?
>> 
>> Dangerous in the sense of breaking the glass ... try pushing "harder"
>> on your window and see what happens. Trying pushing harder on your
>> light switch or door handle and you'll likely break it (I know, I've
>> broken my car's door handle and it'll cost about $300 to repair it!!).
> 
> you must be kidding. nobody can be that stupid.
> 
> the amount of pressure to break a 3" piece of glass that does't flex at
> all is far more than you are going to be able to apply with a finger.

<https://youtu.be/ChUsy8gWwvo>

Gee, watch the glass just shatter. :)


-- 
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* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

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#82676

From	Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date	2015-10-09 16:26 +1300
Message-ID	<091020151626479847%YourName@YourISP.com>
In reply to	#82663

In article <D23C604C.5F983%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
<usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> On 10/8/15, 5:52 PM, in article 081020152052416897%nospam@nospam.invalid,
> "nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> 
> > In article <091020151349295021%YourName@YourISP.com>, Your Name
> > <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> > 
> >>>> It's highly counter-intuitive (as are most of the silly multi-finger
> >>>> gestures) - you don't push light switches harder, pushing hard on glass
> >>>> is dangerous, etc.
> >>> 
> >>> What dangers do you think people will experience from getting to a
> >>> contextual menu or getting a quick look at content?
> >> 
> >> Dangerous in the sense of breaking the glass ... try pushing "harder"
> >> on your window and see what happens. Trying pushing harder on your
> >> light switch or door handle and you'll likely break it (I know, I've
> >> broken my car's door handle and it'll cost about $300 to repair it!!).
> > 
> > you must be kidding. nobody can be that stupid.
> > 
> > the amount of pressure to break a 3" piece of glass that does't flex at
> > all is far more than you are going to be able to apply with a finger.
> 
> <https://youtu.be/ChUsy8gWwvo>
> 
> Gee, watch the glass just shatter. :)

Oh dear, another brainless "everyone does what I do" numbnut to add to
the killfile.  :-\

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#82681

From	Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date	2015-10-08 21:02 -0700
Message-ID	<D23C8A80.5F9D1%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to	#82676

On 10/8/15, 8:26 PM, in article 091020151626479847%YourName@YourISP.com,
"Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> In article <D23C604C.5F983%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 10/8/15, 5:52 PM, in article 081020152052416897%nospam@nospam.invalid,
>> "nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>>> In article <091020151349295021%YourName@YourISP.com>, Your Name
>>> <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>>> It's highly counter-intuitive (as are most of the silly multi-finger
>>>>>> gestures) - you don't push light switches harder, pushing hard on glass
>>>>>> is dangerous, etc.
>>>>> 
>>>>> What dangers do you think people will experience from getting to a
>>>>> contextual menu or getting a quick look at content?
>>>> 
>>>> Dangerous in the sense of breaking the glass ... try pushing "harder"
>>>> on your window and see what happens. Trying pushing harder on your
>>>> light switch or door handle and you'll likely break it (I know, I've
>>>> broken my car's door handle and it'll cost about $300 to repair it!!).
>>> 
>>> you must be kidding. nobody can be that stupid.
>>> 
>>> the amount of pressure to break a 3" piece of glass that does't flex at
>>> all is far more than you are going to be able to apply with a finger.
>> 
>> <https://youtu.be/ChUsy8gWwvo>
>> 
>> Gee, watch the glass just shatter. :)
> 
> Oh dear, another brainless "everyone does what I do" numbnut to add to
> the killfile.  :-\

I noted your claim of the glass shattering from pushing a bit harder is a
bit silly. But, hey, if you have evidence please do share!


-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

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#82709

From	nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date	2015-10-09 01:51 -0400
Message-ID	<091020150151061184%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to	#82681

In article <D23C8A80.5F9D1%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
<usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> >>>> Dangerous in the sense of breaking the glass ... try pushing "harder"
> >>>> on your window and see what happens. Trying pushing harder on your
> >>>> light switch or door handle and you'll likely break it (I know, I've
> >>>> broken my car's door handle and it'll cost about $300 to repair it!!).
> >>> 
> >>> you must be kidding. nobody can be that stupid.
> >>> 
> >>> the amount of pressure to break a 3" piece of glass that does't flex at
> >>> all is far more than you are going to be able to apply with a finger.
> >> 
> >> <https://youtu.be/ChUsy8gWwvo>
> >> 
> >> Gee, watch the glass just shatter. :)
> > 
> > Oh dear, another brainless "everyone does what I do" numbnut to add to
> > the killfile.  :-\
> 
> I noted your claim of the glass shattering from pushing a bit harder is a
> bit silly. But, hey, if you have evidence please do share!

how many shattered trackpads are there? zero.

unless you smash it with a hammer, it's not going to break. 

as for force touch, the pressure difference is very subtle, sometimes
even falsing if it's not adjusted to the user's preference.

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#82802

From	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date	2015-10-09 14:18 -0400
Message-ID	<561804c3$0$31340$c3e8da3$dd9697d2@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to	#82709

On 2015-10-09 01:51, nospam wrote:

> how many shattered trackpads are there? zero.

That is because in the past, people took their frustrations out by
smashing the CRT or throwing it out the window.

Now, when they computer isn't doing what they want it to do, they will
take out their frustration by pressing harder and harder on the trackpad
till it breaks.

(a bit like american tourists in foreign location who think that
speaking english louder and louder will magically make the person
understand english.

:-) ;-)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#82865

From	Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date	2015-10-10 10:43 +1300
Message-ID	<101020151043266356%YourName@YourISP.com>
In reply to	#82802

In article <561804c3$0$31340$c3e8da3$dd9697d2@news.astraweb.com>, JF
Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2015-10-09 01:51, nospam wrote:
> > 
> > how many shattered trackpads are there? zero.
> 
> That is because in the past, people took their frustrations out by
> smashing the CRT or throwing it out the window.
> 
> Now, when they computer isn't doing what they want it to do, they will
> take out their frustration by pressing harder and harder on the trackpad
> till it breaks.
> 
> (a bit like american tourists in foreign location who think that
> speaking english louder and louder will magically make the person
> understand english.
> 
> :-) ;-)

What the numbnuts failed to understand (as usual since they have zero
reading comprehension skills and zero intelligence) is that I said
"*glass*". I purposely said "glass" because people have learnt to be
cautious pressing on *glass* too heavily because it does break ... the
iPad / iPhone / iPod Touch display is covered in glass, so hence there
is still that in-built caution to not press too heavily on them.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#82866

From	nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date	2015-10-09 17:47 -0400
Message-ID	<091020151747410952%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to	#82865

In article <101020151043266356%YourName@YourISP.com>, Your Name
<YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> What the numbnuts failed to understand (as usual since they have zero
> reading comprehension skills and zero intelligence) is that I said
> "*glass*". I purposely said "glass" because people have learnt to be
> cautious pressing on *glass* too heavily because it does break ... the
> iPad / iPhone / iPod Touch display is covered in glass, so hence there
> is still that in-built caution to not press too heavily on them.

cite one instance of the trackpad breaking due to someone pressing on
it too hard.

otherwise, you're just babbling.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#82878

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-10-10 00:00 +0000
Message-ID	<d7r2onF8jf5U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#82866

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <101020151043266356%YourName@YourISP.com>, Your Name
> <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> 
>> What the numbnuts failed to understand (as usual since they have zero
>> reading comprehension skills and zero intelligence) is that I said
>> "*glass*". I purposely said "glass" because people have learnt to be
>> cautious pressing on *glass* too heavily because it does break ... the
>> iPad / iPhone / iPod Touch display is covered in glass, so hence there
>> is still that in-built caution to not press too heavily on them.
> 
> cite one instance of the trackpad breaking due to someone pressing on
> it too hard.
> 
> otherwise, you're just babbling.

He does babble quite loudly, too.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#82870

From	Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date	2015-10-09 15:45 -0700
Message-ID	<D23D9193.5FBC3%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to	#82865

On 10/9/15, 2:43 PM, in article 101020151043266356%YourName@YourISP.com,
"Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> In article <561804c3$0$31340$c3e8da3$dd9697d2@news.astraweb.com>, JF
> Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>> On 2015-10-09 01:51, nospam wrote:
>>> 
>>> how many shattered trackpads are there? zero.
>> 
>> That is because in the past, people took their frustrations out by
>> smashing the CRT or throwing it out the window.
>> 
>> Now, when they computer isn't doing what they want it to do, they will
>> take out their frustration by pressing harder and harder on the trackpad
>> till it breaks.
>> 
>> (a bit like american tourists in foreign location who think that
>> speaking english louder and louder will magically make the person
>> understand english.
>> 
>> :-) ;-)
> 
> What the numbnuts failed to understand (as usual since they have zero
> reading comprehension skills and zero intelligence) is that I said
> "*glass*". I purposely said "glass" because people have learnt to be
> cautious pressing on *glass* too heavily because it does break ... the
> iPad / iPhone / iPod Touch display is covered in glass, so hence there
> is still that in-built caution to not press too heavily on them.

OK, *one* example of iPhone glass breaking because someone pressed on it too
hard with any intention OTHER than to stress test it and break it.

We are not talking microscope slides here!


-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

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csiph-web

Holding down a key does not show repeating inputted characters?

Contents

#82658

#82675

#82678

#82760

#82809

#82858

#82868

#82746

#82781

#82660

#82661

#82663

#82676

#82681

#82709

#82802

#82865

#82866

#82878

#82870