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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #146085

Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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R Daneel Olivaw wrote:
> Jim Jackson wrote:
>> On 2026-02-13, R Daneel Olivaw <Danni@hyperspace.vogon.gov.invalid> wrote:
>>> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>> On 2026-02-12 21:26, Maria Sophia wrote:
>>>>> PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms
>>>>>
>>>>> I do a lot of research as I generally invest at least an hour or two into
>>>>> many of my Usenet opening posts, where I currently employ a thousand-line
>>>>> Windows Notepad++ macro that beautifully cleans up non-ASCII garbage
>>>>> copied
>>>>> from both Firefox and Chromium web output, where, only with Chromium
>>>>> pastes
>>>>> into Notepad++ was the selection mechanism (i.e., Ctrl+A) inoperative.
>>>>
>>>> How do you propose we test this in Linux? There is no notepad++.
>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>
>>> Wine?
>> 
>> Youy mean it can be done if we get drunk?
>> 
> 
> https://www.winehq.org/

Wine and Notepad++ are red herrings for the Linux newsgroup, but the
problem is the same so I apologize if I didn't make the main point clear.

Linux itself does not define how the clipboard works. The clipboard
behavior depends on the display system in use, which is either X11 or
Wayland on most desktops.

Chromium and Firefox both sit on top of that display system. They each
have their own clipboard pipeline, which decides what formats to put on
the clipboard when we copy from a web page.

The key point is that Chromium always puts multiple formats on the
clipboard, including HTML, while Firefox is more conservative and often
puts only plain text. That design difference exists on all platforms,
including Linux.

When we copy from Chromium, on any platform, it typically offers several
formats at once, such as
1. text/plain
2. text/html
3. text/html fragment or internal HTML types
4. sometimes image types
5. sometimes internal or custom MIME types

This pattern is the same idea on Windows, macOS, Linux on X11, and Linux
on Wayland. The exact API calls differ, but the design is the same.

Chromium always serializes the selection as plain text and as HTML, even
when the user does not see obvious formatting.

That is the source of the invisible land mine the PSA describes in the OP.

The HTML fragment is present even when we think we are copying only simple
text.

Since this is a Mozilla group, let's contrast with how Firefox behaves.

Firefox uses a more conservative clipboard pipeline than Chromium.
Thank God.

Firefox tends to emit plain text only, unless the selection actually
contains markup that Firefox considers meaningful.

So I agree with you that in many cases, copying from Firefox produces only
a plain text clipboard entry. That makes the plain text stream simpler and
more predictable for editors on all platforms, not just Windows. 

This is why I did not see the same problem when copying from Firefox. 
The HTML fragment was simply not there most of the time.

On X11, the clipboard is implemented using the X11 selection model.

1. The application that owns the selection keeps the data.
2. When another application pastes, it asks the owner for data in a
   specific format.
3. The owner responds with data in that format, if it supports it.

Chromium on X11 advertises multiple MIME types, such as text plain and
text html. Different Linux/Windows/macOS editors make different choices
about which format to request.

Some editors request only text plain. Some request text html first. 
Some request both, then apply their own rules to decide which one to use.

Because Chromium always offers HTML as well as plain text, an editor on
X11 can end up using the HTML based representation, or can parse the
plain text differently because HTML is also present. That can trigger
odd behavior, even though nothing visible appears in the pasted text.

So on X11, the same Chromium design can cause different symptoms in
different editors, depending on how they negotiate clipboard formats.

By way of conrast, Wayland uses a more structured clipboard protocol.

1. Applications explicitly declare which MIME types they offer.
2. The compositor mediates clipboard access.
3. Only the active paste target can request clipboard data.

Chromium on Wayland still offers multiple formats, including text plain
and text html. Editors on Wayland still choose which format to request.

The stricter protocol can avoid some of the older X11 quirks, but it
does not change the basic fact that Chromium always provides HTML along
with plain text. 

Any editor that prefers HTML on any platform, or that treats plain text
differently when HTML is present, can still show this surprising behavior.

So the same invisible land mine can exist on Wayland, although the exact
symptoms may differ from X11.

The point of the OP is that this issue is not a Windows-only problem

Certainly I have observed the issue on Windows with Notepad++, where
Control+A stopped working after pasting from Chromium. The root
cause, however, is not specific to Windows nor to Notepad++.

The root cause is that Chromium always places multiple formats on the
clipboard, including HTML fragments, while Firefox often does not. 

That's the whole point of this PSA.

Any editor on any platform that reacts badly to the presence of HTML, or
that parses the plain text stream in a strict way when HTML is also
present, can be tripped up.

On Linux, we do not need Notepad++ to see this. 

We can see similar effects in other editors, for example GVim, Kate, or
various GTK or Qt based editors, depending on how they choose clipboard
formats and how they parse the plain text stream when HTML is also present.

So to answer your question keeping on topic for this PSA warning... 

1. Chromium always offers HTML plus plain text on all platforms.
2. Firefox often offers only plain text, unless HTML is clearly needed.
3. X11 uses an older, flexible selection model, so editor behavior can
   vary widely.
4. Wayland uses a newer, stricter protocol, but editors still choose
   which MIME type to request.

The design difference between Chromium and Firefox is the main reason
for the invisible land mine. X11 and Wayland mainly change how that
difference shows up in practice, not whether it exists.

This was not intended to be a Linux-only PSA but a practical takeaway for
Linux users is if we see strange paste behavior in a Linux editor,
especially when copying from Chromium based browsers, it is reasonable to
suspect that the editor may be reacting to multiple clipboard formats, not
just to plain text. 

Just knowing this can be a possibility is like a TSB for a mechanic.

This newsgroup is involved because copying the same content from Firefox
can be a useful comparison test, because Firefox often omits HTML when it
is not needed. 

If the problem disappears when copying from Firefox, that supports the idea
that the extra HTML fragment from Chromium is involved. 

In summary, the answer to your question is the same pattern I saw on
Windows & the same underlying design applies on Linux, both on X11 and on
Waylan (as far as I am aware).
-- 
Had I known how it works, I would have written up a tutorial instead since
I'm a rare breed of person who delights in edifying everyone around me.

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Thread

PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-02-12 15:26 -0500
  Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-02-13 12:02 +0100
    Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms R Daneel Olivaw <Danni@hyperspace.vogon.gov.invalid> - 2026-02-13 12:19 +0100
      Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-02-13 12:32 +0100
        Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-02-13 08:42 -0500
          Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-02-13 13:37 -0500
            Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-02-13 14:36 -0500
            Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms onion@anon.invalid (Mr Ön!on) - 2026-02-13 19:37 +0000
              Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-02-13 15:17 -0500
                Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms onion@anon.invalid (Mr Ön!on) - 2026-02-13 21:21 +0000
                Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-02-13 23:32 +0100
                Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms onion@anon.invalid (Mr Ön!on) - 2026-02-13 22:57 +0000
                Ratcatcher/2.0.0.25 (was: Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms) onion@anon.invalid (Mr Ön!on) - 2026-02-14 01:05 +0000
                Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-02-15 00:26 -0500
            Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-02-13 21:07 +0100
              Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-02-13 15:29 -0500
                Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-02-13 22:24 +0100
                Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-02-15 01:52 -0500
                Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-02-15 13:13 +0100
                Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-02-15 07:54 -0500
                Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2026-02-15 15:06 +0000
                Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-02-15 19:43 +0100
                Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-02-15 14:49 -0500
                Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-02-15 22:04 +0100
                Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-02-15 22:30 -0500
                Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-02-15 14:59 -0500
                Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-15 20:11 +0000
                Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-02-15 17:13 -0500
                Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-15 23:33 +0000
                Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-02-15 21:58 -0500
                Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-16 03:11 +0000
                Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-02-15 22:44 -0500
                Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-02-15 20:43 -0500
                Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-02-15 21:01 -0500
                Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2026-02-16 03:15 +0000
                Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-02-15 14:37 -0500
                Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-02-15 22:08 +0100
                Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-02-15 22:53 -0500
            Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-14 00:39 +0000
              Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-02-15 02:16 -0500
          Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-02-13 22:07 +0100
            Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-02-13 17:19 -0500
      Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2026-02-13 17:17 +0000
        Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms R Daneel Olivaw <Danni@hyperspace.vogon.gov.invalid> - 2026-02-13 18:35 +0100
          Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-02-13 13:14 -0500
        Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-14 00:34 +0000
        Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-02-14 09:22 -0500
    Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Frank Miller <miller@posteo.ee> - 2026-02-13 15:59 +0100
      Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-02-13 13:25 -0500
    Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-02-13 13:12 -0500
      Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-02-13 21:13 +0100
        Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-02-13 16:01 -0500
          Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-02-13 22:31 +0100
          Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-14 00:33 +0000
            Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-02-15 00:41 -0500
        Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-02-14 10:31 +1300
          Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-02-13 22:57 +0100
    Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-02-13 13:12 -0500
  Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-13 23:17 +0000
    Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-02-15 01:14 -0500
      Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-02-15 21:29 -0500
  Re: PSA: Clipboard differences between Chromium & Firefox across platforms Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-02-16 03:15 +0000

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