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Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems'

Newsgroups alt.windows7.general, alt.comp.os.windows-10, comp.sys.intel, comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
From Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com>
Subject Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems'
Date 2020-07-14 08:39 -0400
Message-ID <ucOdnUIvQa7mOpDCnZ2dnUU7-VnNnZ2d@giganews.com> (permalink)

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

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Linus Torvalds' comments came from this article: https://is.gd/6zpZRL

> His comments came in a mailing list (via Phoronix) discussing an article suggesting AVX-512 might not be part of Intel's upcoming Alder Lake architecture. If that comes to pass, it will be just fine by Torvalds.
> 
> "I hope AVX512 dies a painful death, and that Intel starts fixing real problems instead of trying to create magic instructions to then create benchmarks that they can look good on. I hope Intel gets back to basics: gets their process working again, and concentrate more on regular code that isn't HPC or some other pointless special case," Torvalds said.
> 
> Intel introduced AVX-512 in 2013, initially as part of its Xeon Phi x200 and Skylake-X processor lines. It has also found its way into more current CPU architectures, including Ice Lake.
> 
> The instruction set is designed to bolster performance in various types of workloads, such as scientific simulations, financial analytics, artificial intelligence, data compression, and other tasks that can benefit from more robust floating point operations.
> 
> Nevertheless, Torvalds views AVX-512 as an example of "special-case garbage," noting that in regards to floating point performance, "absolutely nobody cares outside of benchmarks."
> 
> "I absolutely detest FP benchmarks, and I realize other people care deeply. I just think AVX-512 is exactly the wrong thing to do. It's a pet peeve of mine. It's a prime example of something Intel has done wrong, partly by just increasing the fragmentation of the market," Torvalds said.

I think he's absolutely right, and previously we didn't see how much 
Intel was wasting its time making these AVX instructions because it's 
gaping security flaws were not yet known. We just assumed that the more 
sophisticated these floating-point instructions got, the more power they 
must draw naturally. But previous generations of FP instructions stayed 
well within the power envelope of the processor, whereas these AVX 
instructions have been known to go well outside the standard power envelope.

	Yousuf Khan

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Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2020-07-14 08:39 -0400
  Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-15 13:42 -0500
    Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2020-07-15 19:48 +0100
    Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2020-07-16 09:37 -0400
      Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-16 14:19 -0500
        Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2020-07-18 12:18 -0400
          Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-18 20:46 -0500
            Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2020-07-18 23:40 -0400
    Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-16 11:35 -0700
      Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-16 13:28 -0700
      Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-16 16:01 -0500
        Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' "Jonathan N. Little" <lws4art@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 17:37 -0400
          Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-16 18:12 -0500
            Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' "Jonathan N. Little" <lws4art@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 19:31 -0400
              Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-17 01:29 -0500
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-07-17 09:55 +0100
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-17 17:52 -0500
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' "Jonathan N. Little" <lws4art@gmail.com> - 2020-07-17 10:28 -0400
        Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-16 14:42 -0700
          Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-16 18:33 -0500
            Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-16 18:35 -0700
              Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-16 23:47 -0500
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-16 22:35 -0700
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-17 02:54 -0500
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-17 15:47 +0100
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-17 12:31 -0400
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2020-07-18 02:18 +0100
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-18 02:28 +0100
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-17 22:30 -0400
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-17 22:06 -0600
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-17 22:33 -0700
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-18 02:09 -0400
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-17 22:30 -0400
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-17 22:26 -0700
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-18 02:09 -0400
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2020-07-18 13:04 +0100
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-18 11:57 -0400
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2020-07-19 16:11 +0100
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-18 13:54 -0700
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-07-18 09:51 +0100
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-18 11:58 -0400
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-07-18 17:30 +0100
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-18 12:48 -0400
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-07-18 18:29 +0100
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-17 19:10 -0500
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-17 22:29 -0700
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-17 14:06 -0700
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-17 19:32 -0500
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-18 02:21 +0100
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-17 22:23 -0700
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-18 01:37 -0500
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> - 2020-07-18 09:16 -0500
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-18 13:57 -0700
                General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems') "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-17 15:31 +0100
                Re: General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems') "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-17 15:55 +0100
                Re: General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems') T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-17 12:49 -0700
                Re: General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems') "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-18 00:13 +0100
                Re: General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems') Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2020-07-18 02:23 +0100
                Re: General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems') "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-18 02:34 +0100
                Re: General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems') Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2020-07-17 14:56 -0500
                Re: General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems') "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-18 00:15 +0100
                Re: General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems') Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-07-18 10:39 +0100
                Re: General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems') T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-18 14:00 -0700
                Re: General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems') T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-18 14:07 -0700
                Re: General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems') T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-19 01:28 -0700
                Re: General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems') "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-19 15:09 +0100
                Re: General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems') T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-20 05:35 -0700
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-17 12:31 -0400
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-17 01:15 -0500
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2020-07-17 02:59 -0400
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-07-17 10:27 +0100
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-07-17 10:50 +0100
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-07-17 17:20 +0100
      Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> - 2020-07-16 16:04 -0500
        Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2020-07-16 19:08 -0400
          Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> - 2020-07-16 19:06 -0500
            Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2020-07-16 20:33 -0500
              Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-16 23:49 -0500
        Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-16 22:36 -0700
          Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> - 2020-07-17 08:45 -0500
            Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-17 12:50 -0700
            Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2020-07-17 15:59 -0400
    Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-16 20:17 +0100
      Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-16 15:22 -0500
        Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-16 22:26 +0100
        Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2020-07-16 18:15 -0500
          OT: Disable line wrap for long lines (was Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop ...) VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-17 03:10 -0500
            Re: OT: Disable line wrap for long lines (was Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop ...) Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2020-07-17 14:46 -0500
        Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-07-17 09:35 +0100
          Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-19 08:19 -0500
            Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-07-19 16:39 +0100
  Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' John Doe <always.look@message.header> - 2020-07-15 19:55 +0000

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