Groups | Search | Server Info | Login | Register

Groups > comp.sys.intel > #687

General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems')

Message-ID <DPz1CjeuYbEfFwX1@255soft.uk> (permalink)
Date 2020-07-17 15:31 +0100
From "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
Newsgroups alt.windows7.general, alt.comp.os.windows-10, comp.sys.intel, comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
Subject General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems')
References (4 earlier) <reqhjm$5ul$1@dont-email.me> <1q8s3dvb888t.dlg@v.nguard.lh> <reqv89$8su$1@dont-email.me> <mxo9j9m4240s.dlg@v.nguard.lh> <rerdb6$4jb$1@dont-email.me>
Organization 255 software

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

Show all headers | View raw

On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 at 22:35:33, T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>On 2020-07-16 21:47, VanguardLH wrote:
[]
>>  When schools are predominatly training students in an OS then the 
>>market
>> penetration goes up.  The students take with them what they learned.
>> Microsoft learned that long ago.  So did Apple.  With so many Linux

And, before that, Bell labs with UNIX; when I was at uni., it was pretty 
universal on the mainframes (this was around 1980, when home computers, 
inasmuch as they existed, were all incompatible, mostly running 
[incompatible versions of] BASIC); I understood that Bell let academic 
institutions for a peppercorn fee, for that very reason.

>> variants and only a few commercial vendors (e.g., Redhat), free is not a
>> sufficient reason for mass migration to Linux.  Get a gradually larger

For the vast majority of home users (including a large proportion of 
those who use their computer in their profession), Windows is seen as 
"free" anyway - in that it comes with the computer. Sure, it's an 
element of the price, but I've not seen it listed separately since the 
days when people had their PC made to their spec. - which for the (vast 
I think) majority of users, is decades ago. [The same applies to other 
OSs - Apple, Chrome, etc.; the price of the OS is not shown, any more 
than that of the case, mobo, HD (or SSD), memory ... in _most_ of the 
places people buy computers these days.]

I'm speaking of the UK, but I _think_ it's the same in the USA. Here, 
the main "High Street" (US: Main Street) or mall places where computers 
are on sale are the larger supermarket branches, and specialist shops - 
and of the latter, we sadly only have one now.
[]
>>  For well-rounded computer eduction, students should really be 
>>exposed to
>> multiple operating systems.  Learn 'em, and let 'em choose.

Ideally, yes. In practice, even if hardware/licensing etc. weren't a 
problem, time is. (As well as all the other pressures on a teacher.)

>>  However, businesses and even schools need support from the OS 
>>vendor.
>> Free doesn't include technical support.  Those institutions don't look
>> firstly at the cost of a license.  They look for support and its cost.

There, of course, the fact that Windows _isn't_ free makes the 
difference: MS provides support to schools (in both the UK and US 
meaning of "schools"), whereas "Linux" doesn't (for both cost reasons 
and that it isn't a single entity).

>> Not having robust support is costly.  In-house training still has costs
>> and adds delay to acquire expertise.  Like buying a printer, you figure
>> the Cost of Ownership is in the rate of use of the consumables (paper,
>> ink), and lastly consider the cost of the printer.  The cost of OS

You _should_, but looking at what people buy, I think few do! (Not 
helped by most stores _not_ showing the cost of a set of cartridges by 
each printer.) [Not to mention the recent abomination - IMO - of "ink as 
a service".]
[]
>> died off.  Same for Fortran nowadays ($80K/year average base salary).

[Where do I sign up? Though I imagine my skills - Fortran IV, send off a 
coding form and get back a pile of punched cards and some printout, 
1970s - are a bit rusty ... (-:]
[]
>>  I have a sneaking suspicion that Microsoft is planning a migration 
>>to a
>> Linux/Windows hybrid kernel with a Windows GUI.  After all, Windows NT,

You might be right.

>> and up, which had an NT-based kernel still carried along the familiar
>> desktop GUI from the 9x/DOS frankenjob GUI.  First it was Linux in their

I remember when NT gradually took over: NT4 had the 9x/XP GUI, but 
NT3.51 had (more or less) the Windows 3.1 (or 3.11) GUI, and held on for 
quite a while: at my employers, NT3.51 systems were not replaced by NT4 
as a matter of course.

[Long chunk that's beyond me here. (I'm sure mostly correct.)]
[]
>And my current experience with small business I have
>constantly tried to figure out how to get folks on
>Linux.  It is virtually impossible, as the apps they
>need only run in Windows.
>
>It is the apps the customer cares about.  They could
>care less if they were run int Flying Zucchini OS, if
>it ran their apps.

Indeed. Same for a lot of home users: as long as it does browsing, 
email, and (mostly via the browser) social media, and in some cases word 
processing, they don't care (or in a _few_ cases even _know_) what OS 
they have. And this is _not_ a put-down of such users - they can be 
quite intelligent, just not _interested_. The car analogy is imperfect 
but relevant.
[]
>Also, the recent computer science grads I have come
>across make my head spin.  They know virtually nothing
>about computers or programming.  Seriously, they barely
>know what a mouse is.  And they are in debt up to the
>asses with student loans.

I feel the same (more in next post), though to be fair they probably 
_do_ know more about _some_ things than you (and I) do. The fact that 
_we_ may consider those things less important is of (endlessly arguable 
and probably not productively so) relevance.
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"... all your hard work in the hands of twelve people too stupid to get off jury
duty." CSI, 200x

Back to comp.sys.intel | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar

Thread

Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2020-07-14 08:39 -0400
  Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-15 13:42 -0500
    Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2020-07-15 19:48 +0100
    Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2020-07-16 09:37 -0400
      Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-16 14:19 -0500
        Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2020-07-18 12:18 -0400
          Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-18 20:46 -0500
            Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2020-07-18 23:40 -0400
    Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-16 11:35 -0700
      Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-16 13:28 -0700
      Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-16 16:01 -0500
        Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' "Jonathan N. Little" <lws4art@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 17:37 -0400
          Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-16 18:12 -0500
            Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' "Jonathan N. Little" <lws4art@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 19:31 -0400
              Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-17 01:29 -0500
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-07-17 09:55 +0100
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-17 17:52 -0500
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' "Jonathan N. Little" <lws4art@gmail.com> - 2020-07-17 10:28 -0400
        Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-16 14:42 -0700
          Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-16 18:33 -0500
            Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-16 18:35 -0700
              Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-16 23:47 -0500
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-16 22:35 -0700
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-17 02:54 -0500
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-17 15:47 +0100
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-17 12:31 -0400
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2020-07-18 02:18 +0100
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-18 02:28 +0100
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-17 22:30 -0400
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-17 22:06 -0600
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-17 22:33 -0700
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-18 02:09 -0400
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-17 22:30 -0400
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-17 22:26 -0700
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-18 02:09 -0400
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2020-07-18 13:04 +0100
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-18 11:57 -0400
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2020-07-19 16:11 +0100
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-18 13:54 -0700
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-07-18 09:51 +0100
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-18 11:58 -0400
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-07-18 17:30 +0100
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-18 12:48 -0400
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-07-18 18:29 +0100
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-17 19:10 -0500
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-17 22:29 -0700
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-17 14:06 -0700
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-17 19:32 -0500
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-18 02:21 +0100
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-17 22:23 -0700
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-18 01:37 -0500
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> - 2020-07-18 09:16 -0500
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-18 13:57 -0700
                General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems') "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-17 15:31 +0100
                Re: General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems') "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-17 15:55 +0100
                Re: General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems') T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-17 12:49 -0700
                Re: General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems') "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-18 00:13 +0100
                Re: General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems') Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2020-07-18 02:23 +0100
                Re: General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems') "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-18 02:34 +0100
                Re: General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems') Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2020-07-17 14:56 -0500
                Re: General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems') "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-18 00:15 +0100
                Re: General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems') Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-07-18 10:39 +0100
                Re: General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems') T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-18 14:00 -0700
                Re: General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems') T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-18 14:07 -0700
                Re: General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems') T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-19 01:28 -0700
                Re: General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems') "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-19 15:09 +0100
                Re: General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems') T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-20 05:35 -0700
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-17 12:31 -0400
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-17 01:15 -0500
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2020-07-17 02:59 -0400
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-07-17 10:27 +0100
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-07-17 10:50 +0100
                Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-07-17 17:20 +0100
      Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> - 2020-07-16 16:04 -0500
        Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2020-07-16 19:08 -0400
          Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> - 2020-07-16 19:06 -0500
            Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2020-07-16 20:33 -0500
              Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-16 23:49 -0500
        Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-16 22:36 -0700
          Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> - 2020-07-17 08:45 -0500
            Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-17 12:50 -0700
            Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2020-07-17 15:59 -0400
    Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-16 20:17 +0100
      Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-16 15:22 -0500
        Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-16 22:26 +0100
        Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2020-07-16 18:15 -0500
          OT: Disable line wrap for long lines (was Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop ...) VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-17 03:10 -0500
            Re: OT: Disable line wrap for long lines (was Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop ...) Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2020-07-17 14:46 -0500
        Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-07-17 09:35 +0100
          Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-19 08:19 -0500
            Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-07-19 16:39 +0100
  Re: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems' John Doe <always.look@message.header> - 2020-07-15 19:55 +0000

csiph-web