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Re: Dock drives never spin down; Can't be booted from

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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micky wrote:

> I'm running XPProSP3 and I have a Thermaltake BlacX dual dock with 2
> bare internal-type drives in it, that connects to the computer with USB,
> and I use each for an almost** complete backup it seemed like a good
> idea.  If my internal drive fails, I just take one of the backups out of
> the dock and install it internally.  

You need to clone to do what you want, not backup.  

> I'm not sure but there may be weaknesses in this plan.  
> 
> 1)   The drives never spin down, even when they haven't been used for
> hours.  

Some docking stations don't support low-power modes.  You are only
writing to the docked drives when cloning, er, backing up to them.  So
why not use the power switch on the docking station?  Not only would
that let you power-down the drives but it would also protect them
against malware from corrupting them.

> What about connecting via eSATA.    Would that spin down after my Power
> Options 20  minute since last use setting? 

Perhaps but you would still need a different docking station.  If their
USB-to-SATA converter logic on the PCB doesn't pass on the spin-down
commands then drives in that docking station will remain spinning.

Looking at the reviews for this unit, it will let you retrieve
S.M.A.R.T. data from only the first docking port (i.e., only 1 drive can
be monitored).  There is no S.M.A.R.T. monitoring via SATA connect.  So
you cannot use a S.M.A.R.T. monitor to determine if there are predicted
or existing troubles with your drive(s).  For example, without
S.M.A.R.T. monitoring, you cannot use HD Sentinel or other tools to
monitor the health of your drive(s).

Considering the high failure rate, unstable operation, and usage defects
reported for this unit, you might consider returning it if within the
return policies of whoever you bought it from.

> 2)  I added these external drives to my boot.ini list so I could test if
> the partitions were really bootable clones, but I get an error
> message.****    Is that because I can't boot to a HDD in a dock, at
> least the BlacX dock?   Is that because it's connected via USB and USB
> isn't working until Windows starts.  

If your BIOS allows a selection to boot from removable media or USB then
the problem is with the docking station.  If it's a dual-drive docking
station, only 1 slot in it can be booted from.

> What about connecting vie eSATA? 

You would find data transfers to be much faster, plus that docking
station only support USB2.

> **** "Windows could not start because of a computer disk hardware
> configuration problem.  Could not read from the selected host disk.
> Check boot path and disk hardware". 

If you are cloning the drives, boot.ini will refer to a drive by its
physical enumeration.  Well, the USB-attached drive won't have the BIOS
enumerated physical value of the internally SATA port connected drive.
You would have to disconnect the internal SATA drive from its SATA port
on the motherboard and move your cloned drive into the case and attach
to the same SATA port.  If you want to swap the normal drive with the
cloned drive then you really need to swap those drives.

XP's boot sector loader program will open boot.ini and from there decide
which location to use for the boot drive.  What's recorded in the
boot.ini file on the cloned drive will not match the physical descriptor
for that cloned drive.  Cloning means you perform hardware recovery by
replacing the original drive with the cloned drive.

> The first two entries work. The first is my  newest XP parttion, and the
> second is the one I normally use. 
> 
> [operating systems]
> multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="MS Windows XP Parallel Pro"
> /noexecute=optin /fastdetect
> multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(3)\WINDOWS="1 Microsoft Windows XP Pro"
> /noexecute=optin /fastdetect
> multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(2)\WINDOWS="2 Win XP Pro BackUPD 244 GB
> of 1.5 TB D2" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect
> multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(2)partition(1)\WINDOWS="3 Win XP Pro XP-New  300 GB
> of 500 GB D3" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect
> multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="4 Win 98 on WIN98 internal
> drive" 

None of those boot.ini entries point at a USB-connected device.  By
having your BIOS try to boot from the cloned drive, the boot sector
loader in the OS partition on the cloned drive would be trying to use
devices at the physical locations defined in that cloned drive's
boot.ini file.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/314081
http://www.dewassoc.com/kbase/multiboot/boot_ini.htm

Sorry, but I've never tried to boot from a USB-attached cloned drive.
If I needed to replace the internal drive (that was cloned to another
drive however it was connected), I disconnect the failed drive and slide
the clone drive in its place.  I don't know that boot.ini can point at
USB drives.  This might help:

http://xpt.sourceforge.net/techdocs/nix/disk/boot/boot11-WindowsSpecificBooting/ar01s02.html

Might work if simply changing rdisk(0) to rdisk(1) has boot.ini point at
a USB-attached drive; i.e., the cloned drive's boot.ini would point at
the cloned drive instead of the original internal drive.

> C:\CMDCONS\BOOTSECT.DAT="Microsoft Windows Recovery Console" /cmdcons

That one is for the Recovery Console.  You can run it off the install CD
or install it as a choice in the boot menu.  Instead of pointing at a
physical device, it points at an image file.  If the file system has to
be intact - so if you or malware corrupts the file system then you may
lose the image file, too, and have to use the install CD to get into
Recovery Mode.

> The last line showed up after I used a Windows disk and installed the
> Recovery Console.    It uses the Partition letter C: but I had no C:
> partition at the time!  

The image uses the default drive lettering scheme.

> Only D: and that's where it put it.  

The image is the same no matter where you deposit the .dat file.  During
boot, no drive letters are assigned until the OS loads.  Drive letters
is an OS thing, not a hardware thing.  You have not yet loaded Windows
when you see the boot menu showing the choices from the boot.ini file
(well, all you've loaded so far is the loader program in the partition's
boot sector so it can read boot.ini to present you with its choices).
So drive letter will be use the default scheme for the boot loader (C:
will be the first drive letter normally assigned and that's what the
image will use).  When you see the selections listed in the boot menu
that come from boot.ini, no drive letters have yet been assigned because
no OS is yet loaded.

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Thread

Dock drives never spin down; Can't be booted from micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2015-09-11 17:25 -0400
  Re: Dock drives never spin down; Can't be booted from Paul <nospam@needed.com> - 2015-09-11 19:14 -0400
  Re: Dock drives never spin down; Can't be booted from VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2015-09-11 20:10 -0500
    Re: Dock drives never spin down; Can't be booted from micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2015-09-11 22:39 -0400
      Re: Dock drives never spin down; Can't be booted from VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2015-09-12 00:23 -0500
  Re: Dock drives never spin down; Can't be booted from "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 04:58 +1000

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